Of course women will be safer

Well, you know what? That’s good for you, at least you can tell if someone is trans. Maybe you’re not the vulnerable person that can’t tell or you have no need to worry when in a pub, cinema or restaurant and nobody is watching who goes in and out of the toilets.

Ugh tHey really can’t help but continue the gaslighting can they. We all know what biological means, and anyone who pretends otherwise is spectacularly dim

Why on earth would I not think it’s safer now? Did you not read the stats?

I have challenged a male in a women’s toilet before and will do so again if necessary.

I hope it isn’t necessary (it isn’t pleasant to have to do it), and that trans women will do the decent thing and realise that their presence in female single sex spaces puts women at risk, even if they themselves mean no harm. But if I do see someone, I can challenge in the knowledge I won’t be made out to be the villain. There is always the option to leave the space myself and wait for them to leave before entering, or speak to a staff member to have them removed.

I’ll confess I’m unsure and imagine it’s down to each shelter’s policy. Nevertheless, if shelter staff are concerned their new entrants is a man they can actually DO something about it - with effect, and without being called a bigot.

It will be interesting in the coming weeks to see how policy is implemented across the public and private sector re the clarified law - but I do feel safe in the knowledge that, in the case of a man attempting to infiltrate my spaces, the law IS on my side in the event of kicking him out, rather than badging me or anyone else a bigot for not wanting them there.

Like I say toilets is the thing end of the wedge. The fat end is prisons and NHS wards - both of which will have the information they need. And also right to free speech - I can call a man a man without fear of being sacked for discrimination

I’ve seen two (male) friends post this today imploring us to remember “biological sex isn’t as simple as what you were taught at school” one has a PhD and is a teacher. I know fine well they know the difference between men and women but for some reason feel the need to pretend it’s all super complicated

https://education.cwu.org/course/trans-101/

So the answer is to allow any man who says he’s a woman into all our single sex spaces? That is a disproportionate reaction. It won’t kill a woman to be asked if she is in the correct toilet but women are harmed by men in our spaces, whether it’s physical or psychological.

Tell me, how do you tell if someone is ‘trans’?

How can we tell what someone’s internally experienced self perception is that ‘they’ are not actually an intrinsic part of their body? We can’t.

Interestingly we can, however, tell who is male, even if they are dressed like a woman. Can you? Dogs and horses verifiably can. Funny that.

If transwomen are women, why is it that statistically they are just as likely to commit a violent crime as men? There's virtually no difference. Shouldn't they aline with women?
Transwomen and men are 18 times more likely to commit a violent crime than women.
While transwomen are just as violent as men because they are men , women need protection from them.

Well the practice worked fine until about 10 years ago so why do you think it'll be so hard now?

Up til recently, any man in any clothes who walked into a women's single space immediately outed himself as a wrong'un. Women could appeal for help eg from bar staff or security, and those people would help.

As soon as selfID came along that went out of the window, the women were afraid of being called a bigot, so were the bar staff/ security, and the man could just claim to be trans and the bar staff/security either didn't know he wasn't allowed in anyway or has actively been trained by the likes of Stonewall that he was.

This resets us to 10 years ago. Is it 100% guarantee of safety? No. Is it an important safeguard that makes us safer than we were last week? Yes

How anyone could defend men infiltrating lesbian, menopause or breast feeding groups is beyond me. The efforts to stop women being able to have anything to ourselves is sickening. Bullying women, threatening venues etc.

You can't really think it's safer now? So you will challenge trans people who enter the toilets, these scary people who are there to sexually assault women? A sexual predator enters the toilet and just a polite "you're not allowed in here" and off they pop.

It won’t happen, OP. We are remarkably good at correctly sexing people. It is an evolved skill. But it is a lazy “gotcha” attempt from people who would rather allow men to self identify into our single sex spaces.

I can’t take seriously anyone who says they don’t understand that women are almost always able to correctly sex other people.

This is a survival strategy that has formed part of the way the oppressed sex (fenales) have attempted to keep themselves safe(r) from the oppressor sex (males) over millennia.

Men may find it harder to correctly sex someone and be easier to fool, I don’t know. It would make sense if so, as their survival hasn’t hinged on it on anything like the same way.

Actually I do think womens spaces should be for biological women. I just don't see how its going to feasible to put this in to practice which is what I mainly said about five posts ago. Which is mainly fine for you as apparently you can spot trans people anyway so that's not a problem for you.

But it would be better to allow TiM officers to intimately search women? 🙄

We know who should not be in a woman's space.
Men.
It's not rocket science.

Yep. There’ll always be a section of society who think that feminism is all about the men

You would lose that bet about no one here being abused by a male person with a transgender identity.

TBH it isn’t the male-looking people with the beards and tattoos who necessarily worry me in the ladies. I can’t say I’ve ever seen one, I have seen TM would are obvious and always strive to look ‘manly’ but are clearly women.

It’s the men dressed in “women’s” clothing who are so obviously men that irk me. They all have a uniform look - a vain effort to look feminine with a bad wig and even worse make up, and over feminine clothes. But also with a 5 o clock shadow, prominent Adam’s Apple, man hands and stand 6’1” tall. It’s this entitled colonisation that is carried with these men - the “blokey” looking women don’t bother me one jot.

So, you won't answer the question that I asked you before you asked me more questions. But I am still patronising and worthy of an abusive hidden laughing emoji while you cannot comprehend that there will be female people who can correctly sex male people?

I will ask my question again though. Maybe you will deign to answer it.

Do you or do you not think that female people should be able to have female only single sex spaces?

Right but nobody ever checks anyones entry in our local restaurants, cinema or pub toilets so what has this changed? People aren't saying they disagree with the ruling they are trying to understand how it works in practice?

The point is that 99% of sex offences are carried out by males. Before the SC ruling, in the last few years it became very difficult for women to challenge a male in a women’s loo or changing room. Now we can, once again.

8-10 years ago any male in such area could correctly be identified as either a flasher or a Peeping Tom. Then the TRAs made it so that perverts couldn’t be challenged and ejected.

It won’t be 100% but women and girls are now much much safer than they were in these spaces, once again.

I’d wager nobody here has been attacked by a trans woman

That’s a wager you would lose, @LucyMonth . And also within my family, attempted rape. It turns out men offend like, well, men regardless of gender identity.

"I support the ruling but a sensible conversation would be great. & further discussion about how to keep women and girls safe. For every story of a trans “woman” harming someone in a women's space there are a 2000 of “cis” men harming women in women’s spaces. & that was happening looooong before there was any sort of acceptance of a trans person using a women’s space. It isn’t a new phenomenon that’s arisen due to trans rights."

This is another one of the arguments that we have seen used for years. It is about the overwhelming number of 'men' who harm women and girls. And it is absolutely true that the number is overwhelming.

Why though would you allow a loophole to allow any group of male people to access female single sex provisions to allow additional opportunities for female people to be harmed?

There are already laws in place for the general male population. And yes, there is a horrific lack of preventing those crimes and that harm.

Why though do women and girls need to wait until those crimes have been reduced?

When then will we be allowed by people saying there is more important issues to come back and address the loopholes that have been created?

This ruling means again that we can talk about ALL male people with the confidence that no groups of male people have been treated as specially exempt.

Why can women not work on multiple fronts and do both? We do this with many things, why is it that these male people get priority by some people that say we should leave this until later?

How many additional female people being harmed will be enough before we can address the situation for those who are saying that we should be focused elsewhere?

No. It isn’t.