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Original poster

M&S changing rooms

492 replies

SweetChilliGirl · 20/04/2025 10:43

Was I unreasonable to send this to M&S?

Good morning,

Having not shopped for lingerie with you for several years, due to your policy of allowing trans-identifying men into the women's changing rooms, can I now be assured that, in line with the judgement of the supreme court males will no longer be allowed to identify their way into your single sex changing rooms, thus preserving biological women's dignity and safety? I would very much like to be able to shop with you again.

I look forward to hearing from to to clarify this important matter.

Regards,

Sweetchilligirl

OP posts:
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6
Annascaul · 21/04/2025 21:37

qandatime · 21/04/2025 21:34

Does anyone know what this means for trans people like for example Jake Graf? (Pic included) Born a woman so I take it that means Jake will now have to use the female changing rooms and how will that work anyway? To look at Jake looks like a man, will shop assistants have to guess? Not trying to wind anyone up with my post, just curious?

Jake should stick to unisex spaces.

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 21:35

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:31

That’s interesting (genuinely) as I knew the clarification protected businesses from prosecution if they provide single sex exclusive spaces. I did not realise it prohibited them from having inclusive spaces.

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Maybe this explanation from Akua Reindorf will help

archive.ph/72lPC

qandatime · 21/04/2025 21:34

Does anyone know what this means for trans people like for example Jake Graf? (Pic included) Born a woman so I take it that means Jake will now have to use the female changing rooms and how will that work anyway? To look at Jake looks like a man, will shop assistants have to guess? Not trying to wind anyone up with my post, just curious?

M&S changing rooms
Annascaul · 21/04/2025 21:33

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:31

That’s interesting (genuinely) as I knew the clarification protected businesses from prosecution if they provide single sex exclusive spaces. I did not realise it prohibited them from having inclusive spaces.

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It doesn’t 🤦‍♀️
Assuming you mean unisex spaces.
Actually, what do you mean?

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:33

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:31

That’s interesting (genuinely) as I knew the clarification protected businesses from prosecution if they provide single sex exclusive spaces. I did not realise it prohibited them from having inclusive spaces.

Show quote history

It doesn't prohibit unisex spaces. They can still be offered, but in addition to single sex ones.

Obviously many small businesses can't offer that due to size restrictions. In that situation all unisex is probably ok.

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:31

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:30

Only if it can be justified and proportionate, that will depend on the size of the business and the space they have.

If they can offer men's (single sex) Women's (single sex) and unisex that will meet all of the PCs under the Equality Act.

Businesses who have the space for that would be wise to offer that. Otherwise they risk litigation (along with loss of custom from women who will be aware that the business is not considering their needs).

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That’s interesting (genuinely) as I knew the clarification protected businesses from prosecution if they provide single sex exclusive spaces. I did not realise it prohibited them from having inclusive spaces.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:30

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:27

And men won’t have toilets which won’t be guaranteed to not have women in them.

But my point is separate - if a private business wants to have inclusive toilets isn’t
that for them to decide with others deciding whether or not to frequent them?

Edited
Show quote history

Only if it can be justified and proportionate, that will depend on the size of the business and the space they have.

If they can offer men's (single sex) Women's (single sex) and unisex that will meet all of the PCs under the Equality Act.

Businesses who have the space for that would be wise to offer that. Otherwise they risk litigation (along with loss of custom from women who will be aware that the business is not considering their needs).

Annascaul · 21/04/2025 21:29

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:27

And men won’t have toilets which won’t be guaranteed to not have women in them.

But my point is separate - if a private business wants to have inclusive toilets isn’t
that for them to decide with others deciding whether or not to frequent them?

Edited
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Of course they will. Women are not routinely trying to get into the gents toilets.
They’ll remain woman free.

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:28

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:19

Has it escaped your notice that trans women are men JHound?

It's absolutely flabbergasting how many people on these threads dgaf about women's rights.

You are siding with men who are there without consent. Women have been and will continue to be harmed unless businesses act to protect women.

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Trans men exist.

So both men and women get the same number of spaces.

Who is siding with men? I am siding with a private business being able to determine their own changing room policy and shoppers choosing to go elsewhere.

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:27

Annascaul · 21/04/2025 21:24

Men free, @JHound
Women will not have toilets which are guaranteed not to have men in them.
What’s causing you such bloody difficulty?

Show quote history

And men won’t have toilets which won’t be guaranteed to not have women in them.

But my point is separate - if a private business wants to have inclusive toilets isn’t
that for them to decide with others deciding whether or not to frequent them?

Annascaul · 21/04/2025 21:24

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:16

How do men get two and women have none - both have the same number, one each which does not change if M&S allow trans people to use changing rooms that accord to their gender identity.

I agree private organisations should not be forced to have inclusive facilities, but I don’t think they should be forced not to, either.

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Men free, @JHound
Women will not have toilets which are guaranteed not to have men in them.
What’s causing you such bloody difficulty?

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:24

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:22

Again, please quote evidence of that from my posts. I’ll be waiting.

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And I am waiting for you to confirm whether you believe that women should have the right to single sex changing facilities? And whether you believe that businesses should respect that women and girls need spaces away from all men for dignity and safety where they can provide those spaces due their size?

Whether you think girls should have the right to single sex toilets in schools?

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:22

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:20

that women should have rights?

Oh get you with your men's rights activism.

Slow. Hand. Clap.

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Again, please quote evidence of that from my posts. I’ll be waiting.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:20

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:17

Or you’re just annoyed that you can’t get a stranger on the internet to say exactly what you want them to say.

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that women should have rights?

Oh get you with your men's rights activism.

Slow. Hand. Clap.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:19

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:16

How do men get two and women have none - both have the same number, one each which does not change if M&S allow trans people to use changing rooms that accord to their gender identity.

I agree private organisations should not be forced to have inclusive facilities, but I don’t think they should be forced not to, either.

Show quote history

Has it escaped your notice that trans women are men JHound?

It's absolutely flabbergasting how many people on these threads dgaf about women's rights.

You are siding with men who are there without consent. Women have been and will continue to be harmed unless businesses act to protect women.

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:19

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:17

Well it's a simple answer, it's not acceptable for a single women or girl to be harmed by a man who is in a space that he is not entitled to be in.

I was asking the person how many they thought was acceptable. They haven't answered.

Says it all.

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It’s rhetorical. Sarcastic. However you want to frame it. She’s clearly not replying because you’re being aggressive and she doesn’t wish to engage with aggressive people.

intrepidpanda · 21/04/2025 21:18

Go in and lock the door. I believe they have a call the assistant button if they try to squeeze under or climb over.

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:17

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:15

You're simply gaslighting at this point.

We're used to it.

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Or you’re just annoyed that you can’t get a stranger on the internet to say exactly what you want them to say.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:17

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:15

No, it’s the unnecessary and aggressive questioning of posters asking simple questions.

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Well it's a simple answer, it's not acceptable for a single women or girl to be harmed by a man who is in a space that he is not entitled to be in.

I was asking the person how many they thought was acceptable. They haven't answered.

Says it all.

JHound · 21/04/2025 21:16

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:09

Time will tell. An organisation the size of M&S is likely to be indirectly discriminating against women if it doesn't.

Men will have 2 options, women who can't be in spaces where men are present have none.

That's not equality.

Edited
Show quote history

How do men get two and women have none - both have the same number, one each which does not change if M&S allow trans people to use changing rooms that accord to their gender identity.

I agree private organisations should not be forced to have inclusive facilities, but I don’t think they should be forced not to, either.

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:15

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:13

The aggression of women arguing for rights that were always theirs.

Oh you do make me laugh Didimum.

Edited
Show quote history

No, it’s the unnecessary and aggressive questioning of posters asking simple questions.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:15

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:14

That’s your opinion. It doesn’t bother me at all how you view me. I’ve asked you repeatedly to quote where I have supported men’s rights or trans rights – I can only assume you’re unable to locate one.

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You're simply gaslighting at this point.

We're used to it.

qandatime · 21/04/2025 21:14

Ddakji · 20/04/2025 11:19

In our local M&S there aren’t men’s and women’s - that’s the problem. The one in the lingerie section just says Fitting Room. So I’m not sure thinking works, if that’s the case across their stores. Better to ask if they will restore fitting rooms signed Male and Female?

My M&S is the same, just a fitting room area for everyone with a row of cubicles with lockable doors. it’s the same in my local Primark and H&M, except they just have curtains.

Didimum · 21/04/2025 21:14

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:11

You may not identify as one but you're doing a grand job for them!

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That’s your opinion. It doesn’t bother me at all how you view me. I’ve asked you repeatedly to quote where I have supported men’s rights or trans rights – I can only assume you’re unable to locate one.

lifeturnsonadime · 21/04/2025 21:13

Didimum · 21/04/2025 20:32

The aggression is rather tiresome, isn’t it?

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The aggression of women arguing for rights that were always theirs.

Oh you do make me laugh Didimum.