M&S changing rooms

She would be rightly challenged. And if she’s gone to those lengths she’ll be expecting that.

We don’t make the law on the basis of a tiny number of women on T. Who, by the way, you are totally using to make a false argument. Don’t pretend you care about that woman.

Tell me, why are you so determined that women and girls shouldn’t have anything for themselves, that they privacy, dignity and safety don’t matter?

But now they don’t even need to bother doing that. They can stroll in, dressed as they are and say “I’m allowed in, I’m a trans man”

so what has this achieved again?

Some men are bad and have ill intent. If you think closing this ‘loophole’ will do anything to protect the safety of women, you’re mad.

What is transitioning? Over the last 10 years this has simply meant a man saying “I identify as a woman”. That’s it.

So, hardly much effort to go to.

But also - men can and do go to great lengths to access their victims.

Trasnwomen are men. Men as a class are a threat to women. Transwomen aren’t some sacred caste of men.

This goes back to my point that a transman with a full beard would be “chased out a toilet” but on false grounds.

And has 0 to do with trans people.

Exactly my point. It’s a non argument. Transwomen are not going to the effort of transitioning in order to enter M&S changing rooms to rape women. And yet this nonsense thread is based on the argument that the OP will reject using M&S if they can’t offer changing rooms only for people with vaginas. And yet when you ask how they expect to enforce that all you get is eye rolls and ‘noones checking genitals obviously’

So pervy man goes in and puts hidden camera in. Then unsuspecting woman goes in and becomes unexpected voyeur porn star. Fabulous!!!!!

(This happens, by the way.)

How do you think single sex spaces were policed prior to them being trashed over the last 10 years? Here’s a hint - not by checking anyone’s genitals.

Unless you’re 10 years old, you know how they were policed. By the social contract that kept the vast majority of men out. And if they made the mistake of coming in they could be challenged by women and indeed girls - two 13 year old girls chased Ellie Izzard out of a female toilet way back in the day - this time last year they couldn’t do that. Now they can.

they could of course just stop providing changing rooms
they've already removed toilets in several local branches

Can you not read? Or is your comprehension so bad you can’t understand that I was asking a question about a specific point? Jesus

Agree OP. Keep the blokes out.

Is rape your bar? Jesus.

Could you actually answer the question @Ddakji or are you just going to insult me?

Pass = deceive.

Very few men can actually deceive women into thinking he’s something he’s not.

What has been achieved is that that man can now be challenged and asked to leave a female space.

Over the last 10 years the social contract that kept the vast majority of men out of female spaces (remember the 13 year old girls who chased Eddie Izzard out of a female toilet back in the day?) has been trashed. It can now be put back into place.

How many people are being raped in the m&s changing rooms exactly? You say it like it’s an every day problem, surely it can’t be that frequent?

Is that how single sex spaces over the decades have been policed? Come on. You can’t actually be that stupid.

Well if “no one is going to start doing genital checks 🙄” then what’s the point in getting so het up over it all?

Well passing trans women, who have a desire to use M&S changing rooms to rape women, still can. Men who now just want to say “I’m a trans man” can go in and rape women.

The only people who are going to be denied entry are trans women who don’t pass (in the changing room attendants opinion) as a woman.

And in the scenario in which a trans woman if denied entry and says “but I am female, I have a vagina” they’ll have to be let in anyway because “no one is going to do genital checks 🙄”

This has literally achieved nothing

What exactly do you expect them to do? Insist on checking the genitalia of anyone wishing to enter? Come on.

Hmm, I don't know if M&S or any shop for that matter says that their changing rooms are single sex, it is just assumed that they are because of the floor that they are on.

I imagine that they will persist with this ambiguity to avoid an legal issues.

The point to me is that they no longer get to lie to women and pretend they're offering single-sex changing rooms when they aren't. They'll need to say their changing rooms are mixed sex and take the financial hit when people don't want to use them.

Of course you can tell. Why do you think they don’t want to be in male spaces? Because they know men can tell too and too many men are Neanderthals when it comes to a feminine man.

Unisex spaces have been shown to be less safe for women and girls. They also exclude those women who need female-only spaces because they are survivors of male violence or for religious/cultural reasons.

Your theoretical person who’s been transitioned for years and has had surgery (which is a minority of those who call themselves trans) could have spent the last 10 years campaigning for more unisex spaces alongside male and female spaces.

I agree. I wouldn’t no they advertise on GB news because I don’t watch it. So that poster must watch it or follow it to some extent to no in the first place.

Omg, do people really politicise every tiny aspect of their lives like this? I go in and out of Marks and it would truly never occur to me where they advertise.

Read this on another thread.

http://www.drazhakeem.com/specialist-psychotherapy-for-gender-dysphoria/

Are you telling me that your female androgynous looking friends currently use the male facilities? I’m assuming not - so they will presumably continue to use female spaces, and occasionally (and it will be very occasionally because women can identify sex very easily) they’ll have to clarify to someone else using the facilities that they are female? Same as now?