M&S changing rooms

M&S changing rooms are individual cubicles with lockable doors.

M&S changing rooms are individual cubicles with lockable doors.

Is that correct? I thought that facilities must now be mixed sex or single-sex. To say they are for women and transwomen would be to discriminate against men. Am I wrong on this?

Or maybe she just wants to dress as she feels comfortable and not conform to anyone else's expectations. You assume she wants to look like a man rather than just dressing in a way that she feels happy with. As she has done since she was 3 years old. Maybe she shouldn't have to answer to the fact that she doesn't dress in a "feminine" way because, after all, that is what women have been fighting for for decades.

See upthread my further replies. They can declare changing facilities unisex or for women or for women and transwomen. As long as there are adequate changing facilities available for all, it’s completely law abiding.

Why do their upper arms appear so thin, then? Same size as bio women's.

Why do their upper arms appear so thin, then? Same size as bio women's.

Would you like to see all the studies that prove that male people retain male strength advantages? I mean, I was pretty sure you have been on threads discussing it in the past.

However, if pp or any one reading wants evidence that this claim above is false, just ask. There are quite a few studies by now that all show the same thing. It is well know. I am surprised to see this misinformation being posted still.

Protected from whom, though?

If you mean big hairy men dressed as men with all their muscle intact because they've never been near HRT, but just declare to the air that they are women, then yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

TW who have taken the time and trouble to dissolve most of their muscle with oestrogen injections and who are dressed as women and look as much like women as possible, and might also have had surgery, then no, I don't think women's spaces need protecting from them. Men who want to attack women have many other ways to do so that don't involve going to all the bother of socially, medically, and/or surgically transitioning. Why on earth would they do all that if they were not genuinely trans? (By which I mean, wanting to change sex (as far as is possible) and then just live their lives in peace.)

Men who want to harm women don't need to pretend to be trans. They usually attack their partners, or break into homes, or lie in wait at night for a lone woman to come along after dark.

Not saying that this is OK, of course!!!! But I am saying that changing rooms during the shopping day is not how/where predators usually attack.

Protected from whom, though?

If you mean big hairy men dressed as men with all their muscle intact because they've never been near HRT, but just declare to the air that they are women, then yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

TW who have taken the time and trouble to dissolve most of their muscle with oestrogen injections and who are dressed as women and look as much like women as possible, and might also have had surgery, then no, I don't think women's spaces need protecting from them. Men who want to attack women have many other ways to do so that don't involve going to all the bother of socially, medically, and/or surgically transitioning. Why on earth would they do all that if they were not genuinely trans? (By which I mean, wanting to change sex (as far as is possible) and then just live their lives in peace.)

Men who want to harm women don't need to pretend to be trans. They usually attack their partners, or break into homes, or lie in wait at night for a lone woman to come along after dark.

Not saying that this is OK, of course!!!! But I am saying that changing rooms during the shopping day is not how/where predators usually attack.

If they advertise a space as being for women and allow in men then they are lying - they should label it as mixed sex. Any gym or club claiming to have single sex facilities and failing to enforce that would be open to claims of false advertising

Erm, yes they are. They can have completely open changing rooms, or they can separate them by sex. They cannot have women’s changing rooms and then only permit certain men. That would discriminate against other men.

And how are they going to police this? Demand to see birth certificates, or ask for a fanny flash? I have several very androgynous female friends who look quite masculine, conversely I know some trans women you wouldn't give a second glance to or suspect were not born women. Whatever your thoughts on this ruling, HOW is it going to be enforced?

Not quite.
Private businesses are not allowed to discriminate. See Gay Cake.

Not quite.
Private businesses are not allowed to discriminate. See Gay Cake.

Changing facilities in privately owned businesses aren’t subject to law, OP. M&S can dictate exactly who is allowed in them and it’s their choice.

Which school is that?

Our local M&S has turned the men’s changing into a delivery collection area and turned the ladies’ changing into unisex cubicles. They can legally do this, but it makes it very hard to have a pleasant shopping experience. You can’t try things on and show your relatives / friends easily. As a parent bra fitting with a teenage daughter it’s nigh on impossible.

Again this is a problem created by Tras, Stonewall, TWAW etc. if TW were not forcing their way into women’s spaces, a muscular looking women would be assumed to be female.

place the blame for this situation where is belongs. It must be deemed appalling manners and completely inappropriate for any male to go into women’s spaces - completely. Then we can get back to the time where all women ( as defined in the Equality Act) do not g3t questioned.

I still have not met a transwomen who truly passed. Once you’ve met a few, you tend to be introduced to others, even if they do not become friends. I think I’ve met about 20 in the last couple of years - 7 of which I consider friends - 2 being quite close and have been “out” since the 1980s. - they fitted right in in the New Romantic era.

Are you female? Is it that they pass to men, but women spot them? Is it an age thing? I’m in my 60s. My friends are all 40s to 60s. Are you very young and your trans friends are teens?

Protected from whom, though?

If you mean big hairy men dressed as men with all their muscle intact because they've never been near HRT, but just declare to the air that they are women, then yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

TW who have taken the time and trouble to dissolve most of their muscle with oestrogen injections and who are dressed as women and look as much like women as possible, and might also have had surgery, then no, I don't think women's spaces need protecting from them. Men who want to attack women have many other ways to do so that don't involve going to all the bother of socially, medically, and/or surgically transitioning. Why on earth would they do all that if they were not genuinely trans? (By which I mean, wanting to change sex (as far as is possible) and then just live their lives in peace.)

Men who want to harm women don't need to pretend to be trans. They usually attack their partners, or break into homes, or lie in wait at night for a lone woman to come along after dark.

Not saying that this is OK, of course!!!! But I am saying that changing rooms during the shopping day is not how/where predators usually attack.

I also know quite a few trans people, men and women. I guarantee you can’t tell that they are trans. Similarly, I know women who look quite masculine and one has been accused of being trans on multiple occasions. How do you propose they prove they aren’t in order to gain access to women only spaces?

M&S changing rooms I have been in have a locked door.

I really can't see the issue who is in the next one too me 🤷‍♂️