Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

You and your daughter are put at vastly higher risk if you share a bathroom with males.

90% of sexual assaults in changing facilities are perpetrated in mixed sex facilities, whereas only 10% take place in single sex spaces.

99% of sex offences are carried out by males, and statistics suggest that those who are trans identified are MORE likely to offend than those without a trans identity.

Still happy to have them in with you?

If you actually are a therapist, OP, then you should be supporting your trans clients to cope with reality rather than encouraging them to feel suicidal because they can’t use single-sex spaces. Many people have to cope with adversity, with the world not being exactly as they want it. We can’t make the world exactly how everyone wants it to be.

It must be awful feeling like you were born in the wrong body and as far as I’m concerned trans people can use whatever names they like and dress however they want. But that doesn’t override the rights of women to have single-sex spaces.

So transwomen can dish out hate, fear and scapegoating towards women but are so terrified of the same happening to them that they threaten suicide. Seriously.

And how are ‘butch and masculine presenting lesbians’ going to be harmed exactly?

OP, you say 'every time identity is debated'...

Thing is, a biological male cannot actually become biological female, but that's what we were in many cases being asked to believe. These issues require debate because there are inevitably nuances around what we are being asked to accept. If it is that trans-identifying people be given human dignity and freedom from discrimination for being trans, then that is fine. But if by 'accepting identity' we are actually being asked to act as if there are no functional differences between biological women and men who feel they have a female identity, then this is quite clearly something different. We cannot parse these issues without debate, and to say otherwise is to try to bully people.

Well on one hand we have the possibility that very masculine looking women may need to reassure women in women's spaces

and on the other we have women being assaulted and raped on hospital wards and in prisons, forced to submit to strip searches by male police officers if they identify as women, being threatened with withdrawal of care or worse if they point out that the 'same sex health care worker' who has arrived is actually a man, lesbian women being harassed and unable to meet without men who are advising them about their duty to 'learn to cope' with PIV sex and that the 'mouth feel' of their dick will be nothing like a man's dick so they need to get over themselves and their sexuality, things like that.

Which do you think is worse?

Stiff competition for the ball-carrying prize this evening but you are a worthy contender. Er, congrats?

You go on about empathy OP, but there was precious little empathy from certain quarters when my friend, a rape survivor who always requests female HCPs, was faced with a bearded person with a bulging crotch when she went for a smear, to be told this person was a Trans woman and made to feel, by the clinic, that she was bigoted when she ran out.

She spent weeks feeling she wasn’t kind enough, worrying that she was transphobic, etc. And almost never went back for a smear at all.

The vitriol against women who only want their legal rights to single sex places is awful.

Never mind as a counsellor, just as a woman - can you understand why we don’t want men in our spaces?

A responsible qualified therapist should know better than to make alarmist online posts about suicide. This is an irresponsible, emotive and coercive thread. It's designed to spread fear and trying make women feel guilty and responsible for a group of people who need to take responsibility for their own decisions.

Just another crude attempt to silence women from speaking about our legitimate rights

@mswales ‘am devastated by this ruling’

Why?

whats the point in speaking to individuals about their lived experience? This result from the courts is what is needed by women & girls primarily for safeguarding - the majority of TW won’t hurt us in women’s spaces but a minority would like the chance to. Which is why we need safeguarding. As a counsellor do you disagree with this?

I am a biological woman
What does this mean @mswales ? You are a biological adult of either sex? That applies to everyone.

Would you be happy for you or your daughter to share a prison cell with a man

Why do all TRAs come after women to be understanding and supportive. Why don’t they ever seem to ask this of men?
Why are we turned into handmaidens?

I agree with you about how devastating the effects of your identity being erased can be...but why is it ok to do this to women?

Why is it ok to impose on me, as a woman, an identity and a definition based on gender constructs – a terrifying identity and definition that has and is used to subjugate us and is still used to oppress and kill millions of women worldwide?

I've found it deeply distressing hearing I am no longer a woman due to my biology, but must have some innate, unidetifiable essence, seemingly based in extremely disturbing gender stereotypes my mother, grandmother and many others fought and suffered to have recognised as oppressive, changeable constructs. It's terrifying, as a woman, to see the rise in misogyny, politicians, doctors, academics declaring that all these decades of struggle for women's rights are to be overthrown as we're now definied as gender traits we've fought so hard to escape.

Will my daughters now be subject to prejudice, barring thrm from stem careers because womanhood is no longer a description of sex, but an invisible essence that means they're not as good at maths or science? Will they be forced to spend their lives, as women have for generations, as carers, people pleasers, because society and authorities claim their very being is based in a gender stereotype?

Why is my identity less important than that of a trans person who insists I, as a woman, must be defined by theur inner feeling?

Why don't you care about how traumatic and terrifying this is for women?

No point asking OP. S/he is here on ball-carrying duty.

They’ve had a shock bless them. They were expecting it to go the same way as Tickle vs Giggle. But thankfully, it didn’t.

Such is life. Move on. Stop expecting women to be the buffers. Don’t steal disabled people’s rights to a toilet either.

Campaign for 3rd spaces / trans categories in sports etc. But that won’t happen, will it.

Reading all the threads on this ruling shows that some of the women celebrating this ruling are indeed bigots like racists. I am a biological woman, spent several years working in domestic abuse refuges and on a Rape Crisis helpline, have been sexually assaulted by men many times like most women (including transwomen) and am devastated by this ruling. It does not make me feel safer, it does the opposite. I would rather me and my daughter share a bathroom with transwomen than the "shut up you men having a mantrum" type women on these threads any day of the week. Transwomen and men reading this thread, please know that so many women stand with you, including on mumsnet. And sending love to you too OP.

It is about women’s rights, though. It’s really disingenuous to claim otherwise.

What about the impact on women and girls, don't they matter.

What about their rape, murder and assault rates?

As a therapist, why don’t you encourage people to be proud in their trans identity, rather than pretending with them that they have actually changed sex?

Agreed.

But we cannot blindly believe that Crunchynuts is who s/he says s/he is. If OP is indeed a lesbian therapist, massive fail on two fronts.