Page 7 | Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

crunchynuts12345 · 2025-04-19T20:59:49+00:00

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this. Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health struggles and suicide, is devastating. It’s not just policy or rhetoric — it’s lived impact. Much like the way the awful section 28 law impacted gays - every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional, it chips away at a person's sense of worth. It's so sad. You’re not welcome, not valid, not ^safe^ — can hit deep

murasaki · 21/04/2025 22:49

I'm assuming the OP doesn't have some sort of accreditation, e.g. BACP or the like. If so, she should be reported.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:48

It may not be “universally agreed upon” but yours is the fringe belief. Not mine. Read the room. Not just TRA echo chambers.

Original poster

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:46

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:44

Well said.

Show quote history

What you're describing isn't truth, it's your belief about sex and gender, presented as if it's universally agreed upon. It isn't. The idea that recognising someone's gender identity is "lying" says more about your discomfort than it does about objective reality. My question is what makes you so uncomfortable? It's weird!!

OP posts:

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 22:46

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:43

I can tell you’re on broadcast mode, @crunchynuts12345but it really won’t fly here. Women campaigning for our sex based rights are not in the wrong here. Read the Samaritans guidelines on reporting suicide, digest the eminently sensible 88 page Supreme Court judgment, and advise your clients that the world isn’t out to get them, it’s just that other people and their rights matter too.

indeed.

I would have thought actually that this type of posting would be unethical.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:44

wrongthinker · 21/04/2025 22:42

Pretty sure the only poster spreading "fear and misinformation" here is you. We all want trans people to feel safe and happy. That doesn't make them the opposite sex and there's no good reason to pretend that it does. If someone's mental health is dependent on other people lying to them the answer is not to lie to them, but to help them be able to cope with the truth.

Well said.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:43

I can tell you’re on broadcast mode, @crunchynuts12345but it really won’t fly here. Women campaigning for our sex based rights are not in the wrong here. Read the Samaritans guidelines on reporting suicide, digest the eminently sensible 88 page Supreme Court judgment, and advise your clients that the world isn’t out to get them, it’s just that other people and their rights matter too.

wrongthinker · 21/04/2025 22:42

Pretty sure the only poster spreading "fear and misinformation" here is you. We all want trans people to feel safe and happy. That doesn't make them the opposite sex and there's no good reason to pretend that it does. If someone's mental health is dependent on other people lying to them the answer is not to lie to them, but to help them be able to cope with the truth.

spannasaurus · 21/04/2025 22:40

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:38

@MrsOvertonsWindow Unlike you, my colleagues and I actually work with and know trans people as individuals not as some abstract threat to be feared. We listen to their experiences, support them through real struggles, and see their humanity every day.
What’s truly irresponsible is spreading fear and misinformation about an already marginalised group. History will judge that kind of rhetoric harshly and rightly so. The world is moving forward, and views like yours are not just outdated; they’re becoming indefensible. The NHS agrees. What exactly are you so afraid of? It’s SO weird.

This

Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

Original poster

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:38

@MrsOvertonsWindow Unlike you, my colleagues and I actually work with and know trans people as individuals not as some abstract threat to be feared. We listen to their experiences, support them through real struggles, and see their humanity every day.
What’s truly irresponsible is spreading fear and misinformation about an already marginalised group. History will judge that kind of rhetoric harshly and rightly so. The world is moving forward, and views like yours are not just outdated; they’re becoming indefensible. The NHS agrees. What exactly are you so afraid of? It’s SO weird.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:38

I’d like you to post the rate of completed suicide in the trans community please @crunchynuts12345because that is what “suicide rate” means.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:34

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 22:17

“Nobody here is trying to silence women or erase anyone’s rights. But pointing out the real-world consequences of a narrative doesn’t make it coercive it makes it accountable.”

Gosh. Really nice bit of gaslighting there.

Yes, trying to imply that women discussing their needs and campaigning for their needs makes some people is responsible for poor mental health and suicide is indeed coercive.

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It absolutely is. I’ve been in a coercive control situation where my partner frequently threatened to kill himself. It is abuser logic. My campaigning for women’s rights is about me and the rights of women and girls. I’m not responsible for the mental health of people who object to my perfectly reasonable human rights.

Original poster

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:33

I'm not a researcher—I'm a therapist who works directly with LGBT+ people. So while I absolutely value data, I prioritise lived experience in the room. And honestly, you’d have to be wilfully blind not to see that minority stress and feeling unsafe or erased in your society would take a massive toll on someone’s mental health.
If LGB people who have finally been accepted,( although that government lag was years behind) already have double the suicide mortality rate compared to heterosexual individuals, just imagine what that means for trans people?

(Source: Office for National Statistics, UK)

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf

Exceptionally High Rates of Suicide Attempts

41% of transgender and gender non-conforming respondents reported a lifetime suicide attempt, nearly nine times the general U.S. population rate of 4.6%.
This figure also exceeds the 10–20% reported by LGB (non-trans) adults.
Trans men (46%) and trans women (42%) reported the highest rates, compared to 21% among male-assigned cross-dressers.

Risk Factors Associated with Suicide Attempts

The survey identified a strong link between external adversity and suicide risk. Notably:

Family rejection: 57% attempted suicide when family refused contact.
School bullying: 50–54% attempt rate among those harassed at school.
Workplace discrimination: 50–59% attempt rate.
Healthcare discrimination: 60% attempt rate when care was denied.
Law enforcement violence: Up to 70% attempt rate among those abused by police.
Homelessness: 69% attempt rate.
Physical/sexual violence at school or work: 63–78% attempt rate.

https://transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/resources/NTDS_Report.pdf

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springsprungsprang · 21/04/2025 22:23

I think the way the judgement is being reported and interpreted has a lot to answer for in terms of creating panic and uncertainty.

Some trans organisations are being responsible and thinking about how the judgement may make trans people feel.

For example, the Gendered Intelligence response was very good, I thought.

Unfortunately the way it's being portrayed in other places would make you think trans people no longer have any legal rights or status. Which is really irresponsible.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 21/04/2025 22:23

Here's a link to the Samaritans - an organisation who understand issues relating to suicide and are concerned that irresponsible commentators in the media don't weaponise it in order to promote their own political / personal viewpoints.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/10-top-tips-reporting-suicide/

I'm not going to bump a thread like this any further other but will reiterate that to see someone who claims to be a "therapist" posting such an inaccurate and emotive thread about suicide says an awful lot about the dire state of therapy currently being inflicted on the vulnerable in society.

10 top tips for reporting suicide

These 10 top tips and Samaritans’ resources for journalists reinforce industry codes of practice to support the highest standards of safe coverage of suicide.

https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/10-top-tips-reporting-suicide/

Helleofabore · 21/04/2025 22:17

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 21:46

@MrsOvertonsWindow with respect, you’ve completely misunderstood both the post and the role of a therapist.
Discussing the mental health impacts of exclusion, stigma, and systemic hostility particularly on a group already at higher risk of suicide is not "alarmist." It’s an evidence-based concern and one that any responsible therapist should be paying close attention to.
Nobody here is trying to silence women or erase anyone’s rights. But pointing out the real-world consequences of a narrative doesn’t make it coercive it makes it accountable.
You’re right that everyone needs to take responsibility for their own decisions. But that includes recognising when your speech or activism contributes to harm, whether that was your intent or not.
If you can’t even acknowledge that trans people are at a much higher risk of dying from suicide because it's inconvenient then there's a disowning of truth which is quite disturbing.

Edited

“Nobody here is trying to silence women or erase anyone’s rights. But pointing out the real-world consequences of a narrative doesn’t make it coercive it makes it accountable.”

Gosh. Really nice bit of gaslighting there.

Yes, trying to imply that women discussing their needs and campaigning for their needs makes some people is responsible for poor mental health and suicide is indeed coercive.

BundleBoogie · 21/04/2025 22:17

spannasaurus · 21/04/2025 22:11

That article makes a claim about high suicide rates but cites a study about suicidal ideation not rates of suicide

It seems that reading comprehension is not a strong point for many trans activists.

BundleBoogie · 21/04/2025 22:16

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:02

1. Testa, R. J., Michaels, M. S., Bliss, W., Rogers, M. L., Balsam, K. F., & Joiner, T. (2017).
Suicidal ideation in transgender people: Gender minority stress and interpersonal theory factors.
Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 126(1), 125–136.
This study examines the high rates of suicidal ideation among transgender and gender nonconforming individuals, analyzing factors from the gender minority stress and resilience model and the interpersonal-psychological theory of suicide. The research highlights how both external stressors (e.g., discrimination, victimization) and internal stressors (e.g., internalized transphobia) contribute to suicidal ideation in this population.

I take it you’re aware that suicidal ideation is not the same as suicide - being a therapist I’m guessing you are?

2017 is 8 years ago - the cohort has changed significantly since then - are you also aware of that?

What about the more recent research that showed suicide was higher among people who had ‘transitioned’ - some because they realised that surgery had permanently wrecked their bodies as they’d been sold a lie and some because they realised their mental health problems remained and ‘transition’ was not the answer?

You seem to have accidentally missed that in your extensive research.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:12

As I suspected it would.

spannasaurus · 21/04/2025 22:11

That article makes a claim about high suicide rates but cites a study about suicidal ideation not rates of suicide

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:09

Serencwtch · 19/04/2025 22:50

Actually what drives self harm & suicide is it being promoted like this.
Trans people are told they have to feel suicidal & feel the struggle in order to 'belong'

Have a look at actual scientific research eg by Prof Louis Appleby.

There is nothing in the SC judgement that would increase the suicide rate for any group of people.

The mental health condition with the highest rate of completed suicide is EUPD/c-PTSD. The overwhelming majority of this group are biological women who the majority of the time have been abused by biological males.

This.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:06

What are the numbers? You’ve linked to screenshots. Can you make it clear what the “high suicide rates” are please. Preferably in comparison with male and female comparators. Men are the most likely to commit suicide.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:03

crunchynuts12345 · 19/04/2025 22:33

@iheartmysmartThis isn't about women's rights. It's about control, fear, and scapegoating. And ironically, it's going to hurt actual women — including butch and masc-presenting lesbians

It’s nothing of the sort. It’s not about “trans”.

It is about women’s rights. Women’s rights to be considered a class of people in our own right. Women’s rights to spaces free from men when we require safety, privacy and dignity. Women’s rights to campaign for ourselves and have our unique connecting experiences recognised in society and protected in law and policy making. Hope this helps.

Original poster

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:03

From the book 'Relationally Queer' Edited by Dominic Davies and Silva Neves

OP posts:

Original poster

crunchynuts12345 · 21/04/2025 22:02

1. Testa, R. J., Michaels, M. S., Bliss, W., Rogers, M. L., Balsam, K. F., & Joiner, T. (2017).
Suicidal ideation in transgender people: Gender minority stress and interpersonal theory factors.
Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 126(1), 125–136.
This study examines the high rates of suicidal ideation among transgender and gender nonconforming individuals, analyzing factors from the gender minority stress and resilience model and the interpersonal-psychological theory of suicide. The research highlights how both external stressors (e.g., discrimination, victimization) and internal stressors (e.g., internalized transphobia) contribute to suicidal ideation in this population.

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Ereshkigalangcleg · 21/04/2025 22:00

Just want to see what you’re basing your claims on.