Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

Yes, @crunchynuts12345 . It has been well documented that it is not true. Why do you lie?

“There are many reasons why single sex spaces are important to women.”

Indeed and we don’t have to justify them to men.

Strawman argument and what-aboutery.

This, with bells on.

I honestly think anyone who has feelings of acceptance, love and compassion for transgender people should be aware that when they post about this issue on. mumsnet they're going to find themself reading posts from individuals who genuinely want transgender people not to exist, who see all transgender women as a walking insult, a material threat and an affront to womanhood.

Look, this is just total nonsense. Enough with all the hyperbole and silliness, around people 'not existing' 🙄

The vast majority on here want transpeople to be healthy and happy, get the support they deserve and be free from discrimination.

But equally, men can't become women, that's just fact. Everyone needs to respect basic scientific facts, respect women and their rights. It's not okay for men to access women's spaces, either legally or morally.

If transpeople need third spaces, then so be it, I doubt anyone is against that.

You’re not reading the responses because it’s clear no one has posted what you’re claiming.

I'm not reading the other responses because I know many of them will be cruel.

I honestly think anyone who has feelings of acceptance, love and compassion for transgender people should be aware that when they post about this issue on. mumsnet they're going to find themself reading posts from individuals who genuinely want transgender people not to exist, who see all transgender women as a walking insult, a material threat and an affront to womanhood.

Any thread on this subject should come with a trigger warning, like threads about disability, obesity, poverty or immigration. The hate is palpable and pretty upsetting.

@TheKeatingFive👏

No as a white woman, you cannot identify as a Black woman. That would be offensive and trivialise a minority identity shaped by generations of oppression.

Okay let's rephrase this ..

No as a man, you cannot identify as a woman. That would be offensive and trivialise a minority identity shaped by generations of oppression.

Have you got it now?

The problem is, though, that the 'angry transwomen' were the ones being listened to. By government, by businesses, by organisations, by the bloody NHS of all places whose very.purpose relies on knowing the difference between men and women in order to treat people appropriately. And yet they have allowed people to self identify their sex.

There have been old skool transsexuals.who have posted on here sharing the same concerns as women (and fully recognising they are male) who were worried about being collateral damage in this. Because they also knew the truth. And, sadly for them, that has come to fruition. Some of them tried speaking up over the years but were called bigots and 'terfs' and excluded from the shiny new trans community because they had diagnoses of gender dysphoria. A diagnosis was not only no longer a requirement but seen as problematic because so few of the new transcommunity would have ever been diagnosed. The Stonewall trans umbrella included everyone from autogynophiles/transvestites to those who.just didn't fully comply with gender stereotypes and they didn't want to be scrutinised too closely. People/men believed that, if they just shouted loudly enough and threatened violence often enough, people would acquiesce to appease them and, for far too long, they did.

The law hasn't changed. No one will be required to dress in a particular way - men who want to wear dresses.(for whatever reason) will still be able to. The law has just been clarified for those who didn't bother looking into it too closely themselves.and just went along with appeasing the men.

They certainly haven't been written out of existence - they've been out damaging statues, throwing piss around and threarening women (as per usual) - we're all still perfectly well aware that they exist!

We're just no longer required to pretend they are indistinguishable from us.

crunchynuts12345 · Yesterday 22:33

I'm not a researcher—I'm a therapist who works directly with LGBT+ people. So while I absolutely value data, I prioritise lived experience in the room.

So in other words, real, useful statistics take a poor back seat to anecdata, anecdata, anecdata. And you introduce a poorly conducted study, by a highly partisan group, with a small number of self selected people.

Who didn't commit suicide, but somehow, you expect us to believe that many of them did.

Forgive me if I can't take you seriously.

@crunchynuts12345

Why haven't you answered my question?

What do you want to happen with single sex spaces?

We cannot allow a situation where women, half the population, are limited in the amount of time they spend outside the house because of a lack of single sexed facilities.

It doesn't matter if it's dignity (many women don't even like open plan changing rooms with other women), religious reasons, post-traumatic stress from abuse.

I hate religion getting brought into these discussions like a Trump card, we might be a secular society, but that doesn't mean non-religious women and girls are happy to ditch their privacy.

There are many reasons why single sex spaces are important to women.

"Quietly"? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

A hundred times this

Most trans people are quietly trying to live their lives.

I agree. I worked with trans people in the 90s and 2000s. They were largely accepted and getting on with their lives. However, in the last decade, they have no longer been allowed to get on with life quietly. Certain activists have been loud and aggressive and trying to push women out.

Nothing will convince me that the last few years of transactivism has done any favours for the average decent trans person just wanting to lead a normal life. Quite the opposite I would aver.

How many children were actually protected by being forbidden to even hear the word “gay” in school?

That never happened, I was at high school in the 80s and gay relationships were discussed in sex education, along with being taught that it was wrong to pick on gay kids.

It seems, as ever, all the trans side has is dishonesty, emotional blackmail and bullying.

Are you genuinely asking?

Maybe you don’t remember when Stonewall announced they were switching from LGB and they added the T and made it the centre of their campaign. I say centre because they turned even the definitions for same sex attracted to focus on people with transgender identities.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/16/stonewall-start-campaigning-trans-equality

Then stonewall used their built up and incredibly well earned reputation to ensure organisations around the UK including the government and public service also centred that group. They gave out misinterpreted policy guidance based on their desired interpretation of the laws. And even when shown in court that these interpretations were flawed, they refused to take ownership of the damage they wrought.

And so now we have schools, hospitals, prisons, sports, businesses all with policies that cause harm to women and children because they followed that advice.

It isn’t just because they were part of the worldwide strategy that forced open the very meaning of the words woman, girl, female, man, boy and male. But that has played a large part in it all. If you force through society, education, governments the new language, the rest was supposed to fall into place. If you say the additional privileges being demanded by male people with transgender identities are just like the rightful, and righteous, rights of same sex and both sex attracted people, that gets you a very long way.

It certainly didn’t start with Stonewall. But in the UK, they gave it the power boost the initial campaign groups needed. Here are some documents that show just how language was used and how this has leveraged other groups to achieve it all.

In case you want to read these documents, here they are:

You can find the Dentons report through this link .

https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/iglyov3-1.pdf

This is the link for the Messaging Guide : Transgender Youth and the Freedom to Be Ourselves
From December 2021 (sorry about the messy link)

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

The Transgender Law Center’s work.

This link also shows a 'playbook' on how to leverage other social justice issues to manipulate people into supporting beliefs not upheld with any factual or scientific evidence at all. In fact, in this link above, the general population are called 'persuadables'. They are not hiding that this is pure emotional manipulation.

And finally, here is something similar from the UK Greens. Just in case people still doubt that there is an emotionally manipulative tactic being used across the world. This one gives people stock answers that they believe will work to either shame people into agreeing with them or that they feel will be 'convincing'.

https://lgbtiqa.greenparty.org.uk/2023/06/15/dogwhistle-guidance/

it is in archive sites if you want to track it down.

What exactly are you afraid of? I genuinely don’t get it

I work in mental health at a senior level. One of the key skills I need is to understand where people are coming from. I speak to them, try and understand their anxieties and fears and help them to recovery. I don’t have to agree or collude with their beliefs, but I do try and understand them.

After all these years are you saying that you have been unable to understand women’s concerns? I find that quite worrying for a therapist really.

Thank you. At the risk of outing myself, this happened in my local supermarket. At the time, my autistic daughter was the same age as the victim of this SA and it made my blood run cold as we were in there so often. I keep hearing that trans women never commit crimes like this and that’s just not true. Suggesting that any trans woman who does terrible things like this isn’t ‘really’ trans does not help and pretending it never happens doesn’t help. Silencing people with concerns by calling them bigots is dreadful behaviour. These discussions need to be had to PREVENT prejudice against trans people, most of whom just want to live their lives in peace - you will never get to the place where they can do that if you shut down debate by calling it prejudice. People will still have concerns regardless of whether they air them if they are not addressed and that helps nobody.

Sorry your attempt to erase women didnt work 😔

Oh the drama, no one is spoken out of existence. Time to grow up.

Gender Dysphoria is co-morbid with other mental disorders that have higher suicide rates
In addition, most commit suicide after transitioning, not before.

This is nothing but an attempt at emotional manipulation to get women to shut up. Again.

I actually do know and like quite a few trans identified people. I consider them to mostly be confused and lost. They are actually in need of therapy to help them cope with themselves and the lives that have led them to stop identifying with their own bodies. Telling them they are being "spoken out of existence" is fear mongering bollocks.

OP I don't believe you are a therapist. If you are then therapy is in a worse state than I thought.

Must say, all your accusations about most of us never having spoken to a trans person… simply illustrate the obvious- that you haven’t listened to women. People have been telling you on this thread their many many experiences with trans people. Our loved ones are trans. Our friends are trans. A lot of us started paying attention because of our trans family members. Others because access to single sex spaces we needed had been lost. Still more because of our work with people with ASD.

I don’t think anyone comes into this conversation from transphobia. Transphobes have no interest in conversation.