Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

Stop calling women misogynistic slurs, @Sabire9

Yes. You're amused at men invading women's spaces and distressing/excluding them.

Tee hee. Etc.

I was referring to transwomen. Hope this helps.

If that's my comment you're referring to as 'vile' do you want to say why?

You clearly think this move is hugely important.

So I'm asking whether it's made a difference to you. A material difference.

Has it?

I'm sure it's made a difference to transgender women, who'll now be facing arrest if they use the women's toilet, and maybe harassment or questioning for using a disabled toilet, given that they're not disabled, and given that disabled toilets aren't always left unlocked for the public.

How is it a plus?

How many transgender women play on Scottish women's football teams? One or two? What impact has this had on the other players?

Well I've noticed Scottish football will only let biological women play in women's teams, so that's a plus.

What a vile post.

Why do you find the idea of men transgressing into women’s spaces so funny?

What an unbelievably odd comment.

Law to be clear.
We can't have a woolly confusing, some single sex spaces are fine for trans others aren't.
Nor can we have some transwoman are OK, but Isla Bryson isn't.
And nobody knows if the transwomen is the next Isla Bryson or a fairly harmless man.

TRAs have always used suicide as a threat so this is nothing new. Do what we say or else impressionable and vulnerable people will kill themselves. Well they are more likely to if you keep giving them the idea.

A sensible response from the trans community and allies would be, using the toilet matching your biological sex doesn't erase you, it doesn't make you less of a person, it doesn't change who you are. Instead they feed the fear, the fury and the despair. I know who I blame if people take their lives. And it's not the women who have fought to get our rights to privacy and dignity back.

trans women enters lesbian space, lesbians mostly don't want to date trans women, but why not just have a conversation - i'm sorry you're not my type and move on?

are you serious? Do you really not know about all this?

For heavens sake @crunchynuts12345 it's MEN!! MEN MEN MEN

There is no hate for transwomen. Transwomen are men and we want to have single sex spaces. It's as simple as that.

All you read all the time is "I don't fear transwomen in the bathroom" well ok, I don't either particularly. But that is not the point. The point is that women NEED (some more than others) single sex spaces. And transwomen are men.

Have you got it now. I'm so sick of this.

When I dated men I was relieved to have an engagement ring because I could say I was in a relationship rather than I wasn't interested.
It was MUCH safer by far than saying I wasn't interested.

If I was dating now, I'm not sure how safe it would always be to turn a man down on the basis I didn't want to date men? Some would be fine, some could be angry.

I think women in general (sexuality not important) have spent the majority of the thread explaining why single sex spaces sometimes matter. Often sex doesn't matter but when it matters it really matters!

I don't hate trans women or trans men or people who say they are non-binary.
Would I want to for example be in a menopause group discussing the particular issues that come with my biology around a trans woman? Absolutely not, but I probably would with a trans man as long as I didn't have to trip myself up trying to get my language right as that doesn't make for flowing conversation, but as long as it was a space where I could use female language, then fine. Would I be happy enough sharing a mixed sex space with a transwoman? Absolutely. As long as that mixed sex space wasn't one in which I was vulnerable.

Ah I see, the poster doesn't understand why lesbians don't want to repeatedly explain to members of the sex class that is responsible for nearly all sexual assaults why a female with a same-sex orientation isn't attracted to their sex.

If that was a genuine question then you need start listening to women. I'm actually assuming this poster is a GC person trying to mock the ignorance of TRAs who would come out with such ludicrous questions.

And also, I find the usual trans interpretation of "woman" highly offensive, stereotyped and simplistic (a friend's child is trans and the only problem they have is that their "daughter" dresses appallingly). Women don't like the idea that we all look and believe certain things. Again, this doesn't impact transwomen who are still perfectly free to "live" their interpretation of "woman".

This is a very childish and unhelpful approach; disagreeing with someone is not "hating on them". Not wanting to share your space isn't either.

Personally I'm not hugely fussed about sharing spaces with transwomen but I do think that sex is immutable, and my thinking that is not hating on trans people. Saying it wouldn't be either.

Your approach polarises where there is no such polarisation. Most people who disagree with you don't hate. They wouldn't go out of their way to upset transwomen - I have no problem using preferred pronouns. But I don't believe that a man becomes a woman because they want to, even if they want to and has surgery/hormones to make their body resemble that of a woman. We're not on opposite sides; we just disagree on one point.

For a long time it has not been possible to say that; maybe it still isn't (but it feels more possible post-SC decision). We should be more concerned about the erosion of freedom to express this, and much, much worse things, for everyone than about whether a very small proportion of the population is being treated in a sufficiently polite way.

Why would a Transwoman want to "chat up" a lesbian??

That would be the actions of a heterosexual male wouldn't it! No man can be a lesbian. Even one who has had full surgery - he'd be a heterosexual without a penis.

The vast majority of women certainly don't Hate transwomen. Its not hate when we refuse to ignore biology and play let's pretend.

When the boy in the fairy tale pointed out the Emperor was naked he didn't do it out if hate - just stating the obvious. Just as we are.

Women spend a lot of time signalling to men that they aren’t interested. We have to avoid eye contact, avoid smiling in their direction, wear headphones, avoid starting conversations/asking directions etc. for fear of them assuming we are up for it/fancy them/open for further conversation.

A lot of the time it isn’t intended particularly aggressively, simply ‘I’m a bit bored, there’s a woman, she’ll help me pass the time.’

However the insults and glares start when you don’t play along- smile love, what’s wrong with you, lost a pound and found a penny, whore/slut/bitch etc.

Why should lesbians add another layer of ‘sorry not interested’ when men shouldn’t even be there anyway?!

@SaveMeFromHumanity Yes exactly but they didn’t want to identify with us. In typical male fashion, they wanted to be us and take everything from us. With force if necessary. Can’t say I know any women who behave like that.

Pop into TRA Reddit, give it a go and report back.

I remember reading a comment on the feminist board a few years ago about how different it would all have been had TW identified with women instead of as women.

With the political clout of born men on our side, we could.have made great strides into improving things for women and trans alike - like maybe we would have.even addressed the issue of male violence...

But instead here they came being men, just like they always do, raping and pillaging their way to dominance.

How nice it would.have been if they'd actually behaved more like, ooh, I don't know, women.

Just imagine the society we could have created.

Not just random TRAs either. Nancy Kelly was CEO of stonewall when she described lesbians who rejected transwomen as being akin to sexual racists

What have trans women done to us. Well let’s think, they’ve taken away our single sex spaces, they’ve taken our sports, our awards, our right to be safe in hospitals and - god forbid - prisons, they’ve raped and abused us and pretty much taken away our identity and right to exist.

What have trans women done for us, well that would be fuck all.