Suicide rates and being spoken out of existence

Would you have the same sympathy for a group where two members are murdered every single week and that's just background noise?

Or would you carry on saying that being female or male is irrelevant to their lives and every time we talk about it, we should pretend we are talking about indefinable feelings?

I have. My friends ex-DH is trans. He left her and their kids (who he can’t be arsed to see anymore) and went on to father another two kids with his “lesbian” girlfriend. He still likes using his dick you see. Does that sound like a woman to you?

Clearly you aren’t listening to women- ironic really.

This is about women’s rights, and seeing them reallocated to people who aren’t women, and told were bigots when we question that.

Every accusation you make is projection! Every one is something that TRA lobbying has been pushing for.

A lot of transwomen / people unfortunately won't survive this.
You sound incredibly unprofessional. And lacking in knowledge of most up-to-date research and published articles on the dangers of such hyperbolic language.

Feeling like you're being legislated or spoken out of existence, especially when you're already part of a group at such high risk for mental health because of existing mental health conditions, including dysmorphia. Autism. Depression and anxiety.

It’s never about transmen is it. Funny that.
Almost like people know quite well who the women are… the actual oppressed and ignored.

I agree OP. But I doubt you’ll get a sensible discussion on mumsnet. It’s a very anti-trans place and turns hostile very quickly. Unfortunately feminism on here has become very embedded with anti-trans rhetoric and I don’t think anyone can change their minds.

For a while I did get caught up thinking that ensuring women’s rights were untouched were the most important thing. But then I realised how few tans women actually take up women’s spaces. And how little trans women impact mine or my children’s lives. And how actually fighting for trans rights means fighting for a world where differences can be embraced and nurtured.

As a ND woman who has been an outsider all my life I look forward to the day everyone is allowed to take up space. As an autistic woman I am in another very high risk group for suicide, and the awful treatment I and most other ND people have received regardless of vulnerability is sad. I don’t expect those people to treat trans people any better but I really hope it changes.

And ironically, it's going to hurt actual women

At least you acknowledge that ‘transwomen’ are not women. Oops how transphobic.

But actually @crunchynuts12345 your post did make me think.

why is it women’s problem if some men suddenly decide to commit suicide, why do women need to fix it?

go on some male forum and ask them how they are supporting their fellow men.

why are you asking us?

It IS about women's rights. It's not about trans people, although some vocal ones are hijacking this to centre themselves.

You know what? Ok, yes. I do feel very sorry for people with gender dysphoria. It must be a horrid condition to suffer from, feeling so wrong in your own body.

The answer is not to ask everyone else to affirm your delusions - women cannot be men, and men cannot be women.

To suggest transwomen will kill themselves because they can't access women-only facilities, smacks of male privilege and manipulation. Any decent ones would surely care about not making women feel uncomfortable. And I know there are many such. These people should have their own spaces, but not those spaces designated for women.

The law needs to reflect truth and reality. The truth and reality is that transwomen are men who want to be women, or believe they are women, or pretend to be women. But they are not women. Sometimes - the truth hurts.

every time identity is debated like it’s theoretical or optional,

Like 'woman', which you render meaningless because you won't define it?

Tell me how telling gay women they are 'really' men isn't as homophobic as S28?

I'm quite sad you can't post honestly on here.

I will not take on guilt or a sense of moral responsibility for the actions of people who can't cope with scientific fact. I can't control what they do with their lives, just as they can't control what I know to be true. People need to work on accepting themselves as they are instead of chasing 'affirmation' from the masses.

People exist in infinite variation. Nothing and no-one is stopping that. It's not speaking someone out of existence to refuse to lie to make someone feel better about themselves.

Absolutely. The very last person who should be doing this, because they ought to know fucking better.

I know a 19 yr old who did that. It only took her a couple of months to raise the funds. Surgery was very soon after 😢

You sound like Prince Harry's therapist. Both useless.

Give it a rest

If you think this isn't about women's rights, you haven't been listening, learning or thinking for the last decade. Wise up.

It really is pathetic. But it must be difficult to suddenly not just being able to demand what they want and have it.

Welcome to living life like a woman.

Yes. Grossly irresponsible in anyone, but for a therapist to weaponise this is appallingly unprofessional.

I also know a transperson (women to man) that started a go fund me to support the removal of her breasts. I cannot believe people actually donated. Shall I start one for my breast implants?

But why this now?
Trans people are fully protected in law and have EXACTLY the same rights as they had a week ago. The Judge stated this.
I hope everyone is reassuring any trans friends of this. They remain fully protected in law and, armed with this reassurance, should use their voice to fight for their own spaces and services

Did you mind as much when this kind of thing was happening to women? Legislated and spoken out of existence, the lived impacts including a never ending stream of violent threats which were usually sexual, exclusion, harassment, assault and rape? The women who wouldn't go to refuges and stayed in lifethreatening situations because men wouldn't accept that women had needs too?

It is not up to women to suck up all this so that men are able to express themselves freely and not have mental health struggles. There are going to have to be other ways to support those men. Demanding to sacrifice women to their happiness is not ok.

It would be nice if the ‘trans community’ (as they style themselves) could see women as individuals and not just a prop to validate the desires of men but here we are.

It would be nice if people could have some empathy for women rather than posting poor attempts at emotional blackmail and comparing us to racists.

You’re not Nancy Kelley are you?

It is absolutely about women's rights to single-sex spaces, why do you so arrogantly completely dismiss that? Why would women want to "control" or scapegoat trans people?

Stop repeating lies about trans people taking their own lives. Someone has posted the article which debunks it further up thread. It's dishonest and irresponsible.

Do you mean look beyond the individuals holding the disgusting, threatening placards at the marches today or the ones threatening violence against ‘terfs’? Where is their humanity?
I don’t think you get to tell us how to think or how to be empathetic. Individuals make up a movement.