To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

Fantastic post 👏 👏 👏

I actually feel like it’s mainstream that needs to change. We teach everything far too fast and move on before half the class has cemented a concept as we have so much to fit in. The curriculum needs scaling back and, especially at primary, teachers should have the freedom to tailor it to their class’ interests. Since we joined a MAT we are forced to have boards, planning etc identical. The CEO didn’t like the fact that every classroom looked different as it wasn’t pleasing for him to walk around. The Long term and Medium term plans have to be up on the website early so there is no chance to deviate from these to follow the children’s passions and interests. We mostly follow schemes as apparently that’s what OFSTED likes. It makes the whole thing soulless and it’s not surprising ND and NT children are struggling.

Those parts of speech are fine and ITA, they are necessary to understand how to structure a sentence in English and then foreign languages. However - fronted adverbials at KS2?

I did French, German, Latin and Spanish. I don’t recall ever having to do about fronted adverbials - and Latin needs a way deeper understanding of grammar than English!

I think part of the issue is there have always been some more academic children who even at 4 and 5 genuinely enjoy reading, writing and maths and progress well in them. The powers that be see the levels these children can attain at 6 & 7 and think "great, how can we get more children to that level?". But actually in reality, while we can all learn & improve, some children will never "keep up". Add in the impact of some children having very poor home development in crucial early years and you are never going to get everyone to the same level. The answer isn't to constantly mess around with a "floor" level of attainment. Its to understand that academic ability varies, and outcomes will as well, and we can't blame teachers if they can't work miracles with lower attainers.

There need to be pathways that enable learning of functional literacy and maths that also lead towards useful skills for a workforce. We are badly short on construction workers & care workers, You don't not need fabulous academic qualifications to be an excellent construction worker or highly empathetic care worker.

I agree with all of that (except that there is nothing difficult or strange about knowing the words for parts of speech - noun, verb, adjective etc - it's no more difficult than lots of other things kids learn at that age, and it's certainly useful when they start learning a foreign language).

However, like many suggestions, imo it's not going to solve the most pressing problems that are worrying people most about schools and kids' behaviour.

DS was going to primary school in the early 90s, before the literacy and numeracy hour came in. There was more room in the timetable for other subjects like history, etc. IMO, it was much better then, as children got to do other subjects, which interested them more.

There was none of this, expecting children to know parts of speeches. IMO, it’s dry and boring for young children - not something they need to know at that age!

DGC go to Polish school on Saturday mornings - the teachers there are horrified at the way English children are expected to be sitting down and doing so much formal learning, before the age of 7. IMO, we should be looking at the kindergarten system up to the age of 7.

People who make this kind of remark rarely have any sensible suggestions about what a 21st century school should look like. They often seem to want schools to teach a bewildering range of life-skills-type subjects, but actually don't seem to be able to identify any currently taught subjects which should be ditched to make room for these.

They also don't seem to have any suggestions about how one would create a system that 'caters to all'. I agree that things about the current system need to change. The exam system especially. But I think people are kidding themselves if they think a more accessible curriculum would get rid of behaviour problems.

Plenty of kids throughout the generations have always been bored by school and by their subjects. It is inevitable. Learning and preparing for their future is simply not high on many kids' priority lists. They are driven by other things at that age. No amount of trying to make the curriculum interesting will solve that problem. And the lack of discipline from home, the influence of social media and the lack of respect for teachers mean that it's almost impossible to make some of them care about even trying to look as if they give a shit.

I do think its a mix of factors. In no particular order:

1. Weaker parenting, less clear discipline & consistently imposed boundaries. Too much explaining and validating, not enough being in charge of child at an early age.

2. higher academic requirements that some children are simply going to find too hard, with teachers expected to "level" a class and get lower attainers closer to a higher base line. In the 80s/90s when i was at school it was more accepted that some kids were not going to attain at particular levels and could learn different/more appropriate things, teachers weren't held accountable for "keep up not catch up" when some kids are just less academic. If everything is too hard for you all the time, you are not going to behave as well.

3. Behaviour policies in school that have been disastrous - paul dix with very few real consequences for pupils who misbehave.

4. Teachers/school rules not being supported by parents. When i was a child if you got a detention or lines for cheeking a teacher, you got a bollocking at home as well! Same regarding uniform, your parents bought the dorky required skirt from the uniform shop, they didn't buy you some more fashionable prohibited one & then defend your "right" to wear it.

5. Screens. Both inside and out of school. I understand things like MyMaths are quicker & easier for teachers to set, provide instant data etc, so reduce workload, but kids seem to be using tablets in school for a huge amount of things, its not good for young brains. Add in too much screen time at home as well and its a recipe for disaster.

Right now we have the schools we have.
Change takes time and money and teachers, LAs, Government are not going to make changes unless they think they will work. So time ticks on and your child is in this system right now.

So it is your job as a parent to equip your child with the necessary skills and behaviour to be in the classroom they are, not the one that doesn't exist.

If your child shoves a teacher, or tells them to fuck off, or storms out of a class, it is your responsibility. If they display misogynistic attitudes in school what the hell are you teaching them at home? What are they watching online? What are you doing to combat these behaviours? That is entirely down to what they are being taught and exposed to outside of school hours, which is your responsibility, as their parent.

There are children who have time in separate houses, but it is still the responsibility of both parents to take control of these behaviours.

Our children have been exposed to classroom disruption, luckily, in their secondaries, those children get removed from class, by the Head, by the scruff of the neck, if need be. Put in isolation and eventually if nothing changes they are permanently excluded.

Does anyone think that 25+ other children and teachers should continuously be subjected to classrooms where nothing gets done because one child is shouting fuck off and refusing to sit down? Should the education, and teaching, of the many be stunted because of the few?

If you want your child in a school then make sure they can be there, with whatever support that is AVAILABLE not desired.

The Unions are advising teachers to vote against the "no exclusion" policy the government has suggested and any parent who opposes this I would guess has a disruptive child, but as most, the vast majority of children are not disruptive, most parents agree with exclusions for the aggressive, misogynistic, disruptive pupils.

Why should our children not get an education because someone else's child won't be taught by a female? (And the answer really isn't get more male teachers in this example)

Many parents are sick of these kids and their parents taking up more than their fair share of school resources and staff time.

The reason our teens are doing ok is partly because pupils have been expelled, but on top of that we have parented, I know it's an odd concept, continuously parented their conduct as they grow into men, talked through what they have witnessed in school and support the quite frankly amazing teaching staff who we trust for their education and wellbeing during many days.

We have been told "if all students were like your boy my job would be easy" via more than one teacher. But this doesn't happen in a vacuum we continue to parent our teens because we chose to have them and understand they and their behaviour the buck stops with us.

Not 100% no, nothing is, but the vast majority of child's behaviour is the parent's responsibility. How could it not be?

So your child is one of the problems.

Teachers have 30 kids - or more - each who would like their full attention and it taught in a particular way to them. Unfortunately, teachers are also human beings who physically can not bend over backwards to one child.

My children have had some piss poor teachers - to the point I home educate one of them - but their behaviour was never a problem.

You still haven’t said where? When? Universities were different. They were not subject to the league tables.

Why don't all the parents of children who "would cope in main stream if only the teachers did this, or if only there was the right support" become part of the solution that is so easy in their minds and train up to become a teacher or 1-1 support?

Start being part of the solution.

With your vast understanding and clear reasoning of these simple solutions you could not only help your child but many others for years to come.

If teaching is a stretch there are routes into TA, and mamy vacancies.

Why don't you do that?

I don’t know what goes on in schools these days (DC are grown up and left school over 15 years ago), but I have observed the following behaviours while going out and about in the (nice) area local to my home:

1. EVERYONE that’s out and about seems to be on their phone all the time rather than paying attention to their surroundings
2. A lot of children don’t appear to be expected to go straight home after school, as they roam around the streets and parks in large groups, until quite late, unsupervised, often leaving a mess behind them of the copious wrappers and containers of junk food and drink that they seem to be able to afford daily (unless they are stealing it - see point 3)
3. A few children (the ones that steal from the local shops, mainly) seem to have access to balaclavas, illegal e-scooters (stand up ones) and e-mopeds (which they ride around on without the required crash helmets) and terrorise both the pavement and roads, and about which nothing is done
4. Scuffles regularly break out between children, sometimes resulting in collateral damage (unnoticed by the children, who seem to be incapable of apologising to the people they have barged into, often elderly, as they appear to have been taught no social skills or manners)
5. Parents take their children to local coffee shops, restaurants and pubs, where they completely ignore them in favour of chatting on the phone or in person with their mates, disregarding their children’s behaviour, language or noise levels in complete contempt of other customer’s safety, comfort and ability to hear their own conversations over the screaming

Yet plenty inc my DD, locked in halls for weeks on end and finishing her last 18months with remote learning, went on to get excellent degree's & have done v. well in the workplace.

It was a few months, in total, of disruption.

Children will play up if not given boundaries and consequences, decent parents know this, yes there are a tiny minority of children, who for whatever reason, will be badly behaved but the sexism and misogyny the Unions are highlighting is disgusting and shouldn't be excused, let alone tolerated.

Teachers/Schools need backing 100% on the issues of discipline in schools and wider society.

I hope very much Labour get a backbone and do not water down the on-line safety bill or let the US tech giants off the hook.

In a few years time, these 10yo's will be young men, god alone knows what they'll be like, "bringing up" children of their own.

Excuses, excuses. You can choose to support the teacher and let your child know you won't back them up in their poor and inexcusable behaviour and they will have consequences at home if they misbehave. Who cares whether the teacher is good/ bad or indifferent they need to learn to 'suck it up', that's life - not have a parent excuse their poor behaviour. Shame on you for not dealing with your child appropriately when their behaviour was noted as unacceptable by the school.

Please explain to your child that boredom is no excuse for poor behaviour and he needs to behave appropriately at school or there will be consequences. This is an appropriate response to your child misbehaving because 'bored', anything else is poor/ weak parenting.

I was put up 2 classes (I also missed a year of school travelling so ended up only being one year higher). My DH also started university early as he was above average. But even if you're not smart enough to be put up, you are definitely given harder work or more work, there's really no need to be so bored you need to disrupt others

I suspect that the lockdowns will be used for many years to come for certain types of individuals to excuse all their issues.

sorry that post was in response to the person blaming lockdowns, I didn't manage to quote them!

Sorry but this is utter nonsense, the desperation to blame lockdowns for everything gets more ridiculous each year.
It has now been five years since the first lockdown, schools were closed for 10 weeks, from March–June 2020. During the second lockdown schools were closed for 8 weeks January 5 to March 8, 2021.
It is now over 4 years since schools opened again permanently. During the lockdown people went to parks and holidays and even pubs and restaurants, anyone remember eat out to help out?
Schools also never closed at all for a considerable number of children (key workers children and vulnerable children) Many of the children with behaviour problems being blamed on lockdown were born after lockdown or were newborn babies during it!
In a few years all the children in primary school will have been born after lockdown ended, and I would bet every penny I have that the issues will be the same or worse. What will people blame then? Intergenerational lockdown trauma!?

So your DS has a history of being badly behaved yet none of it was his fault?

You are making the point for the teachers and union.

These accommodations are not free unless you count teachers time as free.

I agree that the majority of teachers would easily accommodate needs such as your daughters. Me included.

But they take time and time is not free. Too often teachers are told to ‘just do’. When the things we should ‘just do’ are beyond what we can deal with then they don’t happen.

Where have you heard this - the US? It really is very unusual for a child to be put up a class or kept down for year, because secondary schools don’t like it! They really want children in their chronological age group, as otherwise it mucks up their GCSE stats.

I don’t know your dc but I do believe we have to do our best for our children. You have wasted vast time from your DCs’ lives arguing about who is to blame for their behaviour instead of spending the time on fixing it. I feel sorry for you all.

"Pranks" ? says it all.

No enforced boundaries at home, no discipline and when they are badly behaved & disrupting other children who want to learn, its all a Prank!