To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

I mean, yeah, of course that’s what I want. Because I see the alternative and how it negatively affects my child’s education and school experience. I’d happily help campaign for more specialist placements, but I’d be hauled over the coals for being as blunt as this in real life, I have to pretend it’s fine that 90% of the teachers’ time is spent on 10% of the children. I don’t think inclusion should be the goal.

If they’re with a group who have met at a museum or library, then they are developing social skills.

Thankfully, it wasn’t a teacher that said it

There are some idiots, for sure, as there are in all jobs. There are also thousands and thousands of teachers doing their very best in a very difficult and stressful job and going the extra mile to help children every day, including dealing with bullying and following school policies to deal with bad behaviour. I'm sorry to hear that you have experienced very poor action from your dc's school.

If we've learnt anything from this thread (and the others) it's that parents of neurotypical children or children with very low support needs should just come out and say that they are really don't want children with significant SEND which affects their behaviour in their mainstream classrooms

as a teacher, I would say what is required is proper training for teachers if we are continuing with inclusive education. Not 20 minutes at an inset, not the expectation that we read up on it in our own time, just hands-on training which helps everyone concerned to be able to more effectively manage any behaviour which presents in our classrooms. Teachers would be better equipped, less disruption would occur, children would get the support they need.

If we've learnt anything from this thread (and the others) it's that parents of neurotypical children or children with very low support needs should just come out and say that they are really don't want children with significant SEND which affects their behaviour in their mainstream classrooms.

I understand why this is, I get it, I just think if mainstream was different we'd all have a better chance of real inclusion. But, these parents who don't want children with SEND related behaviour issues in their children's mainstream classes should be honest and help with the campaign for more specialist settings.

Except girls are overlooked and ASD is dismissed as ‘just anxiety’

Aswas the case with my dd. Then she became too unwell to attend school and self harmed.

But she flew below the radar.

And burnout is a recognised syndrome in the RCPS on ASD.

Fair enough, but it is really difficult to draw the line between disability and other factors.

I have two disabled children: one continues to be non verbal, nappies etc, the other had this profile but is now toilet trained and verbal (but severely language delayed). For many years it was much, much harder parenting my verbal child who on paper should have been easier. I know that's slightly different to what you're describing (15, neurotypical-passing, no academic difficulties - I used to work with some of these teenagers) but it isn't as simple as more severe vs less severe, non-verbal vs verbal. There is a lot of nuance in SEND.

when you thing your child isn’t being challenged in school education wise you ask get a tutor or do extra work n the weekends etc. this unfortunately has to be the same approach for parents of ND / behavioural / etc

You can’t compare the two. They are nowhere near the same thing. The vast majority of parents cannot afford the SEP DC with SEN require. It is far more costly than tutoring a child who isn’t being challenged. The law recognises SEN and exceptional ability are not the same thing. Although, obviously, some DC fall into both categories. And, thankfully, the law disagrees with you.

Oh don’t me wrong those kids are very very clearly disabled. I know a few kids with this profile and their parents likes are HARD. I’m talking more about the parents who had ‘no idea’ their child was disabled with ASD until they were 15, and the parents who insist the life of UPF and screens has nothing to do with the hyperactivity and anger. For every sensible argument some kind of complex but thinly evidenced ‘explanation’ seems to come up. Like masking, burnout etc

Yup, I agree. Schools and teachers don't take bullying seriously. Yes, they have the policies and the posters, but can't be arsed to actually deal with it when it happens, and yes, the usual response is to "toughen up". Typical victim blaming. I agree, modern schools simply aren't fit for purpose anymore. We need radical changes to our education system. Root and branch reform needed.

What about the ones who struggle in comps because of the disruption etc? They're also anxious, in fact even more so if you add in bullying to the mix, so they're actually frightened of going to school because of the verbal and physical abuse they suffer once there?

I’ll correct that for you. It’s not benefiting Anybody going to school in their current shape and form. They are not fit for purpose.
My own child was told that they’d better get used to getting bullied because they would be bullied in the workplace
And they just have to suck that up.
That was the wrong thing to say to a head of HR .
And they backtracked massively when I quoted the Council’s own policies to them
But these are the kind of idiots that we have on the front line. Ones that aren’t able to intellectually process their own policies and procedures. And the children bear the brunt of that.

Based on the unions DC is entirely due to my poor parenting

Can you link to anywhere that shows unions have said children with SEND is entirely down to bad parenting?

I said upthread it was annoying that SEND has been reduced to autism and ADHD but other than that you really don't have a clue about SEND.

I have known non verbal kids not eat or drink anything for 3 weeks (literally not a single thing passed their lips). The hospital only allowed them to be tube fed once they lost a certain amount of weight and it was clinically critical. This was down to autistic food refusal not a physical issue. The parents thought their kids were going to die. I actually don't know what would have happened in the 60s, 70s, 80s or whatever?

I love it how every one thinks a lot of kids just struggle with a little bit of anxiety! Mental health is complex. It's not just feeling a lil anxious now and again, it can be debilitating. I've seen a 9 year old boy have full fledged panic attacks because he's been attacked by another student but they don't have "bullies" apparently. (Just children with big feelings.)

It’s not benefiting anyone let alone our children for the answer to feeling anxious to be avoiding absolutely anything that makes them feel that way. That’s not learning to manage it. Not taking a stressful corporate job because it makes you feel anxious is one thing, being unable to take any job and being resigned to a life on benefits is another thing entirely.

People don’t understand because the profile of special needs now is radically different to 15 years ago. Back then it would’ve conjured an image of a little kid with Downs, or in a wheelchair, or with glasses and hearing aids.

Now, it’s just synonymous with autism and ADHD, 2 conditions which while in existence back then, were quite rare and you’d be hard pushed to come across more than 3 or 4 kids overall with a diagnosis.

Not only that but for whatever reason, the profile of autism itself has massively changed, and has gone from mostly boys who have very clear ‘Aspergers’ behaviours, to virtually any child or teen who acts outside of a narrow stream of ‘typical’ behaviours. Throw in a few symptoms which have some people bemused - ‘they’ll only eat McDonalds’ ‘they say they need their tablet to regulate’ ‘we can’t make them do anything they don’t want to, they have ASD and ADHD’ and you can kind of see why the term ‘SEN child’ doesn’t muster the sympathy and accommodation it used to.

It’s not like aversion therapy, you don’t get used to being anxious. You might learn to manage it but then you would learn to avoid scenarios where you might find yourself in those situations. I’ve never gone back to corporate life. And I never would because I have identified the cause of anxiety.

I completely agree we have used schools abroad
And the parents are expected to contribute pen’s papers toilet roll, and get into the classroom at least once every half term to circumvent the need for a TA. To the benefit of all the children in the class. And if any child was playing up or giving them any nonsense that parent in the classroom would deal with it.

And the kids parent would say thank you to the parents afterwards and very apologetic for their child’s nonsense.

Agree. The new ‘therapy’ seems to sitting at home gaming while your parents bankroll you and wonder why you have no impetus to do anything.

Don’t they? Everyone has to do things that make them anxious. If they want to have a family, a decent job, a social life. They DO have to push through it. A minority of people have anxiety and should be given help, medication, therapy etc.

I 💯 agree.

But. There has to come a point where addressing the anxiety is also crucial and helping people to gain life-skills has to happen.

And that's what has been lacking for the last decade or more.

It doesn't matter if Danny has a varied home-school education and got some GCSEs if he can't have a conversation with someone he doesn't know, answer his 'phone or whatever.

We have more DC out of school than ever before, more young people out of work than ever before and the primary claimants of disability benefits in young age ranges being 'mental health'.

And the leading claimants of PIP, a benefit designed to help disabled people with the additional costs of having a functional disability effecting the ability to move around, take care of nutrition, bathing, washing and dressing, continence, and communication with others being awarded to people who are anxious and depressed.

this this this.

too many want or expect specialist provision in simple comprehensive that has to cater to a majority of students.

and then after getting 1-1 support at great expense are still unsatisfied which is understandable. However you are a haranguing a state school to do something that is literally not possible.

they cannot provide a specialist education it’s never going to happen.

I think there is an expectation for big standard state schools to be all things for all pupils and parents and it’s not realistic.

it is school not a specialist educational setting for every single child’s need unfortunately and that seems to be what a lot of parents want without paying any extra costs with afterschool provisions and basic skills teaching as well.

it’s frankly unrealistic and bizarre.

everyone has to accept the limitations of school this includes SEND parents. Most parents want their children to thrive and sometimes school isn’t enough and this has to be supplemented by extra curriculars or tutoring or whatever outside of school.

when you thing your child isn’t being challenged in school education wise you ask get a tutor or do extra work n the weekends etc. this unfortunately has to be the same approach for parents of ND / behavioural / etc

everyone needs to lower their expectations unfortunately. Circumstances have changed, the world and budget is not what it was. Adapt.