To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

Quite the opposite ! They do better ! Shorter class periods also improved cognitive function . As for humans learning the same way … did you have access to internet growing up ? Obviously I’m not sure how old you are but in my time research was done in person in the library , you had no way of actually finding facts . My 3 year old knows how a combustion engine works and how an electric engine works because her sister showed her a video and a book . Did you have access to that ?

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/pisa-scores-by-country

Loads of European countries topping this..... 😬

Is it ? Look at how school works in other countries in Europe . You have plenty of evidence

My daughter wouldn't have been considered SEN years ago, she has ADHD and her behaviour is very challenging. However, I refuse to make excuses and I have told school too that she needs to have consequences for her actions because she certainly won't get any grace as an adult (and rightly so) I'd rather teach her that while she's young. It seems that our attitude isn't the norm and the school are incredibly grateful for it. Our daughter would be a hell of a lot worse if we always excused her actions.

The way children (and all humans) learn hasn't changed ever. We're programmed to learn via repetition, revisiting and regular use of knowledge. Whether that knowledge is which berry is safe to eat as a cave dweller, up to solving a quadratic equation.

Places with fewer hours in school tend to have smaller class sizes and a completely different societal construct. They also tend to have worse educational outcomes.

What nonsense.

@MAFSsaddict I said many times (not that anyone was very interested) that getting an EHCP is basically having a part time (unpaid) job while you do the LA's job for them (the schools were both good).

I think that in the vast, vast majority of cases independent investigation would find parents asked for help many times but nothing was forthcoming.

Of course there must be parents who could do better but the problem is schools have got nothing and nowhere to refer to in a timely fashion so the parents (usually mums) are very much on their own with it. Literally on their own in a lot of cases.

It’s very little to do with parenting a lot to do with the way education is given . The old school format is not working , not only there are a lot more children neurodivergent but the way children access information , the way children are raised and the way children learn in a whole changed . Yet we still want our kids sitting in tables with silly uniforms made for compliance only and fully controlled . Look at other places where they school less hours , where school is different where there are no uniforms , less behaviour issues , less bullying , better education .

We have the opposite, I have not worked FT for many years because basically I’ve had to lead the way with every element of my (SEND) child’s needs. For two years everything was played down and I was essentially gas lighted, at times they were dismissive and occasionally rude. I have single handedly managed to get DC diagnosed, including paying for an assessment with specific recommendations, none of which have been implemented, despite meetings and promises. Some of these recommendations date from 2023, not implemented.
I wrote the EHCP for the school and also have written funding bids for them and specific interventions and plans, spending hundreds of hours. It’s been like another job role. Found out last week DC had gaps going back to Year one (now year 5) which is when I first flagged concerns (which were dismissed).
DC has good social skills and no behavioural issues. This is because I appreciate that SEND does not completely excuse bad behaviour and also that DC has to ultimately fit into society so I am doing no favours not robustly helping them to do this. Also school gets considerable funding to support so no excuse but there was an arrogance about listening to me. I have been proved correct on every single concern I raised 4 years ago. Unions and government, councils need to engage with parents before making judgements. That said, I think secondary is a whole different ballgame and i have real sympathy for teachers there, especially the female ones.

No offence but you must have been spectacularly uninterested in this if this is really coming as a shock to you. Teachers have been telling these experiences for years now. Serious assaults from very small children all the way up to teens who are bigger, taller and stronger than they are. I work in the independent sector now so I am thankfully not exposed to this but when I was training and in my first school it was present. Colleagues in other schools tell me plenty. It's utterly appalling and whilst yes I do think huge changes could be undertaken with the curriculum, fundamentally, that behaviour comes from home and nowhere else.

A local school with a good reputation used to do this but were criticised by Ofsted for it. They stopped, behaviour deteriorated and now they have been criticised for that. Teachers would probably agree with you but can't do what they like.

Agreed. I've worked in several schools. Sadly it is by no means uncommon.

It's a regular occurrence if you look at the statistics. That will be the reported assaults, nevermind the ones swept under the carpet like PPs describe. The no more exclusions lobby has given children and parents the idea they can behave how they like without consequence.

When my daughter was on supply getting work experience, one child slammed her into a door frame and broke her hand.
She wasn’t offered the accident book and it wasn’t documented, the agency couldn’t remember which school the incident happened when I tried to follow it up with vengeance.

According to the official documentation, there’s been no physical violence in that school but there has been

I can’t quite believe a child would physically assault a teacher. I am not suggesting it’s not true, but it’s extremely shocking behaviour. I have never heard of that happening before. It’s hard not to think this reflects upbringing. If it is made clear that you don’t push or hurt other people, or put your hands on them, then a child wouldn’t dare do it.

Absolutely this. It was at this point I decided to retire at 60. It was thoroughly soul destroying trying to teach Reception this way.

@IstayhomeonFridaynight and the screens are much better too - important difference. I suspect I'm of similar vintage to you and with the best will in the world, there was a limit to how much one could watch 3/4 terrestrial TV channels and it took me longer to persuade my ZX Spectrum to function than I spent playing on it - frankly books and bikes were easier.

When I look at Minecraft, Roblox, BBC iplayer - so much free high resolution stuff - I'm not sure I'd have resisted it either.

@Wooky073 does she have an EHCP? Would you like a link to.the support thread on here if not? Do you think a hospital school service might be able to support - has she ever been under one?

The school knows that the LA won't back them for an exclusion because then they'd have to find a place for him in a PRU. The point surely to God, is that a child should not be telling anyone, especially a teacher to fuck off. My kids can be typical teens at home, stroppy and rude but by Christ they are impeccable at school.

Screen use is a big factor, but whenever it's raised on MN lots of posters say their kids need it to self-regulate, or the parents we all see handing their phones to their toddlers are only doing so as the parents are so exhausted by the hours of enriching activities they've been doing with their kids, or their kids are ADS or ADD, and their screen is essential for their wellbeing.

When my parents were too busy to engage with me, I went out to play. My DS didn't have as much freedom to roam the neighbourhood (I remember being flashed at and doing stupid dangerous stuff) but he'd play in the garden with other kids from the estate, or hang out in their gardens or homes.

Now when parents want to disengage for a bit - which is totally natural - they seem to default to phones or tablets, kids want them more, and they give them more.

It's certainly convenient to blame parents as that avoids the government restoring the services and support that have gradually been withdrawn over the last 15 years.

The current SEND support system, such as it is, requires high levels of cultural capital to get anywhere (I had to represent myself in two tribunals and that's hardly unusual). Obviously that's going to.be much harder for someone less educated (and the evidence you need often costs money too).

My DD is "low support needs" in a supportive environment but my goodness once that's not there things change quickly.

I feel for the OP who is not only dealing with the fallout of the withdrawal of services and support personally but also professionally. She could hardly do more!

My child has a long term condition for 4 years now. Primary school were fine - flexible and supportive. High school are being as difficult as possible I think in the hope that we move him. It comes down to the school having a rigid system and approaches which are from the dark ages and are unwilling or not sufficiently resourced / incentivised to progress to being more flexible and modern. i work in higher education. We support students with flexbile approaches to teaching and learning and accomodate a range of learning styles and make all resources available online 247. If I took the approach the school had I would be fired or on a disciplinary. Its a shocking difference. Its too easy for the schools to blame parents. its not the answer. A combination of factors is involved once of which is terrible attutides at school which are blatantly controlling and discriminatory. I wont be backing down with the school and will take them to court if necessary to get them to start accomodating my childs needs. I am not asking for much - just to be more inclusive and accomodating - eg to stop refusing to send work home and provide some info as to what they are studying at school for when he isnt well enough to come in to school but is well enough to some study at home.

It’s almost all down to parenting, not always but mostly. Half the kids with SEN, I can just take one look at the parents and see that it’s poor parenting that’s caused their developmental issues.

of course there are other factors, but they are all rounding errors compared to the epidemic of poor parenting that occurs in this country. Particularly amongst the those of below anverage intelligence and uneducated.

I think a big part of it is that teachers have too many boxes to tick and it’s making them unhappy, which obviously has an impact on the children.

It must be frightening for a child not to be given boundaries by their parents. They come into the world knowing nothing and are left to work things out for themselves.