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To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

416 replies

Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 12:44

I speak as a mum of two children with EHCPs and someone who is a SENDIASS officer, name changed to protect my identity/job.

There is a strong rhetoric from the teaching unions this week about behaviour in schools and poor parenting. No mention of the bigger picture, just poor parenting.

My DC are 10 and 8, just two years behind them. When DC1 was a toddler there was a huge range of groups, support, targeted interventions through the local sure start centre. These were already being cut by the time my DC2 was a toddler. Then covid happened and the services and groups have just not returned. There is no early support anymore.

One of my DC is a challenge in school, fortuantly she is predominantly a flight risk rather than violent but still a behavioural challenge. We have had one physical incident where she shoved a teacher. Pure combination of factors that had led to DC being enclosed within a corner by several children and with nowhere to escape to she shoved to escape. Unacceptable but that was the reasoning of why and she was suspended for two days etc. She struggles to cope with the sensory demands of mainstream. Too many children, too much going on. They fly through the content whereas she likes to master things in depth before moving on. Too many low level behavioural issues like children who just don't ever stop talking. She can't navigate social dynamics. None of this DC can cope with. There is a lack of consistency in the school day and the routines. None of this is the school's fault but realistically how it is in every mainstream school. We are struggling to get her moved to a specialist setting. She has no learning needs and generally with the one exception, she isnt violent so the SEMH schools are not appropriate either.

My other DC would never dream of acting out, is not a behavioural issue at all despite his needs.

Based on the unions DC is entirely due to my poor parenting. It doesnt matter that DC2 is a behavioural dream. It doesnt matter that I have no behavioural issues with DC1 at home where it is quiet, the same rigid routine for the past 6 years and less social demands. It doesnt matter that she is in a completely wrong setting.

In my LA there are over 400 children like my DC1 who have specialist agreed but are stuck in mainstream with no setting to go to. There is nowhere for them to go. These are the children with specialist agreed by the LA. This doesn't include the many hundreds more who don't have specialist agreed or don't even have EHCPs yet.

Our health trust is on 3+ years for an initial appointment. CAMHs are almost non-existent. You are only considered for medication if you are already a behavioural problem in school, it doesn't matter if a child has severe ADHD until they are at the point they can no longer cope and it is at crisis point.

Early help, if accepted, offers 6 weeks of support. There is a huge gap between early help and child in need.

I speak to parents day in day out at work who are desperate for help as their children can not cope at school.

There will always be poorly behaved children due to poor parents but the majority? The majority are children who simply cannot cope in the setting they are in with nowhere to go to.

Over 400 children in my LA with specialist agreed but stuck in mainstream. That is an incredible number.

I know my DC spends 8.45am-2pm in a small cupboard with a 1-1 TA. She joins a much younger year group for the last hour a day. She does 95% of her schoolwork with me at home.

OP posts:
nomas · 21/04/2025 13:10

Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 13:32

The places that cost tens of thousands per week are independent specialists. Independent specialists have exploded to take over a void created by not enough maintained specialist settings being available. Our LA has a handful of LA run places at around £30000 per year. If they opened more LA run settings they'd get the cost down considerably. It's hard to have sympathy when it was entirely foreseeable when they closes lots of maintained settings.

Additionally, our LA wanted to open around 80 places in satellites September 2024. 12 opened on time. A further 24 have opened in the 7 months since. 36/80 planned places. There is a school site they are planning to be a LA maintained setting. Years it has been going round in circles. Meanwhile Independent settings are created and popping up within a year. Again, it is hard to have sympathy as this was entirely preventable.

Who do you find it hard to not have sympathy for? The tax payer? The council tax payer?

There is only a finite amount of money.

frozendaisy · 21/04/2025 13:05

At our youngster’s school a few parents wanted to get rid of streaming “because it made their children feel bad”
They very nicely got told, erm no.
How could you teach foundation and higher maths in the same class? How?

But this is the level of expectation now. It’s becoming impossible.

frozendaisy · 21/04/2025 12:57

This is a debate about behaviour though not SEND.

If teachers are saying their main concerns are
pupil behaviour
parental behaviour
workload

and if these issues aren’t addressed so it becomes increasingly more difficult to retain and recruit decent teachers what then?

without teachers you can wave as many EHCPs around as you like who will be there to teach them? Some schools will become babysitting facilities.

There are hundreds of other teenagers in secondary schools, you have 2 years to get through each GCSE syllabus. That is what we have right now.

Basic, non-disruptive behaviour is the bare minimum if we all want schooling to improve.

Parents have a huge influence on the success of a school, the whole school, there might be up to 20% of pupils with EHCPs but there is 80% who can be taught as things are.

Schools can only cater to the majority.

2 years to cover 9 GCSE subjects. It’s intense. So you need to support your school with your child’s behaviour to get through this with some semblance of enjoyment.

Although it sounds like some parents won’t be happy until all teachers are so ground down with bespoke specifications that we are all teaching our own kids GCSEs around the kitchen table!

Post-16 they don’t have to be in a formal school setting they can do what they like then.

MumChp · 21/04/2025 12:52

CaptainMyCaptain · 21/04/2025 08:57

Rubbish. They might have had a bad experience, who knows, but to make the sweeping starement 'state schools don't care' is ridiculous. Sure, there are big problems in the system but the teachers I know care very much.

It's like the often heard 'the NHS doesn't care' equally stupid.

Edited

If you say so. 3 children and not our experience.

Sendcrisis2025 · 21/04/2025 12:48

With my professional hat on someone else hit the nail on the head with the system.

There no longer is any provision for those with lower level needs. Everything is only accessible once a child is at crisis point.

Our local SALT service have "solved" their major shortage of therapists issue by getting schools to do more before a child is eligible for therapy.

Our local CAMHs have solved theirs by... getting schools to do more.

Social care ask schools to monitor children. Early help is now predominantly those who historically would have been child in need, even child protection. Actual early help now doesn't exist.

Outreach services to help schools troubleshoot behaviour here are only available for those with EHCPs.

There is a current big movement by LAs to take "ordinarily available provison" out of EHCPs, it is the current focus accross several LAs. What it means is that a child might need the entire breadth of OAP, which we all know they can't provide without the staffing or resources, and taking it out of plans as it is deemed OAP.

I see children with significant needs and EHCPs with 2 lines of provision in F.

Schools are drowning trying to support those with EHCPs and cover for all the other services. This means that those without EHCPs frankly don't get a look in.

My DC's class since year 1 has only had a TA if my daughter is in class. They can't use her for interventions as she needs to be available as and when my daughter leaves the room. It is not a case of my DC taking feom the rest of the class, my DC's school get £34k a year for her and that TA just wouldn't exist. So the class benefit from her as and when. My DC has had a social support intervention for years, this has meant the school has been able to put 2-3 other children in the support group with her and her TA to benefit from it too. It wouldn't exist if my DC wasn't there and since my DC has not been in class, none of them have been able to access it. Again, it is not taking from the class but is an advantage due to my DC having that TA and funding. It would not be there without her.

If we, as a society, supported those at SEN support level or even pre-SEN support level better then parents wouldn't seek EHCPs. Children wouldn't need EHCPs to get a basic level of support. Children would not be hitting crisis point which is far more expensive to fix.

OP posts:
MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 12:47

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 21/04/2025 12:42

Baroness Warnock wrote in her 1978 report that 20% of children have SEN.

Here are the figures for January 2024:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07020/#:~:text=How%20many%20school%20pupils%20have,%2C%20Health%2C%20and%20Care%20plans.

About 18% of children have SEN. That’s hardly everybody?

The number of EHCPs has risen, partly because the 2014 Children and Families Act gave children with the SEN the right to an education beyond age 16, up to age 25, although there was no corresponding uplift in funding. That is part of the reason why LAs are in deficit over SEN spending.

1 in 5 is a lot of people - too many to expect individualised approaches for, money isn't limitless. You'll always find an article that demonstrates a point, it doesn't make it right.

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 21/04/2025 12:42

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 12:13

Completely agree - Pandora's out of the box and everyone has special needs, it's just not a sustainable position but individuals won't accept this and do their bit - e.g support their own children by being present and engaged, not expecting the schools to be the substitute.

Baroness Warnock wrote in her 1978 report that 20% of children have SEN.

Here are the figures for January 2024:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn07020/#:~:text=How%20many%20school%20pupils%20have,%2C%20Health%2C%20and%20Care%20plans.

About 18% of children have SEN. That’s hardly everybody?

The number of EHCPs has risen, partly because the 2014 Children and Families Act gave children with the SEN the right to an education beyond age 16, up to age 25, although there was no corresponding uplift in funding. That is part of the reason why LAs are in deficit over SEN spending.

ThatFirmPearlPlayer · 21/04/2025 12:41

Katiesaidthat · 21/04/2025 12:22

Ah, but does that "something" significantly impact your daily life and that of your family and generally those around you? That´s where the difference lies. Those of us who only have somethings that don´t have a significant impact can afford to be blazé about psychiatric and mental health issues, can´t we?

Possibly.

But I know more than a few people including children whose 'mental health issues' apply exclusively to things that they don't want to do.

Like not being able to go to school because of how loud and overstimulating it with noise and artificial lighting but can be a part of youth theatre taking centre stage in productions.

Not being able to go to school because of crowded corridors in between lessons but can go to highly crowded music festivals.

Can't go to school because of speech and language and sensory difficulties but can get a part-time job in a cafe where they wait on tables and love it.

Can't go to school because of social anxiety but says they really, really wants to be in education but when hoops are jumped through to get hospital education at home I.e 1:1 at home tuition, won't get out of bed but get up later to go out with their friends.

Katiesaidthat · 21/04/2025 12:22

Peony1897 · 21/04/2025 08:39

I feel like if any of us underwent a thorough psychiatric evaluation and testing we would be diagnosed with something.

Ah, but does that "something" significantly impact your daily life and that of your family and generally those around you? That´s where the difference lies. Those of us who only have somethings that don´t have a significant impact can afford to be blazé about psychiatric and mental health issues, can´t we?

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 12:21

The UK population also increased by 4.4m over the period 2014-2024, around 7%, so you'd expect numbers of children with SEN (as defined in 2014) to increase, even without any other factors changing.

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 12:13

Peony1897 · 21/04/2025 11:34

But the law has massively overpromised and was brought in at a time that less than half of the number now had SEN. It was never designed for a million children. But they can row back without rioting, so they’re stuck.

Completely agree - Pandora's out of the box and everyone has special needs, it's just not a sustainable position but individuals won't accept this and do their bit - e.g support their own children by being present and engaged, not expecting the schools to be the substitute.

StrivingForSleep · 21/04/2025 12:11

So ehcps have increased (partly because they now go up to 25) but it's partly an austerity thing.

I completely agree, @Frowningprovidence. As well as outside agencies, other examples are things like fewer general class TAs, provision for those unable to attend school less forthcoming from LAs, more needing to go down the EHCP route earlier for those below compulsory school age in order to get enough support in nursery.

Frowningprovidence · 21/04/2025 11:56

Peony1897 · 21/04/2025 11:34

But the law has massively overpromised and was brought in at a time that less than half of the number now had SEN. It was never designed for a million children. But they can row back without rioting, so they’re stuck.

I think you are muddling up statistics a bit.

In 2010 there was over a million children identified as sen. The SEND code of practice came in in 2014 so they were clearly aware that a million children would come under it.

The number of statements was about half the number of ehcps we have now which is what I assume you mean? (and it's not a million ehcps now)

So ehcps have increased (partly because they now go up to 25) but it's partly an austerity thing. I keep saying this because it's true, but when I started in education you could access services like SaLT or OT without an ehcp, but now they only do 'statutory work' as they call it. So if you think a child needs it your forced into applying for an ehcp. I work in a school where we literally have pupils we could have supported even 5 years ago, where we are now starting ehcp applications as there's no other way to get people like EPs to come in and give some advice.

I've no doubt there is also some increased parental awareness and some people able to navigate the law in thier favour. But it's not all that.

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 21/04/2025 11:55

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 10:29

Whilst every child is the centre of their parents universe ( as they should be) they're not the centre of society' universe and must learn to adapt. A tale as old as time that some entitled parents would like to ensure the world revolves around their child's needs - it does not. The sooner society as a whole shifts their perspective on this the better for everyone, including children who have differences, SEND, unique personalities, whatever challenges they face, the better. The narrative is skewed and needs a reset.

Imagine you are a child aged five. You get whisked off to a remote village in China. You don’t have any of your electronic devices to communicate with family and friends at home. You go to school, where you can’t understand the language, nobody can understand you and you can’t understand the written language. It’s clear to you the society has rules, you can’t understand and bad consequences can happen to you, at random as far as you know?

How would you feel? Disoriented, lost and homesick - but you are an adult? How much worse would it be for a child, without an adult’s cognitive abilities and experience.

Or, you had to spend all day at a rave. It’s hot, dark and there’s loud music with flashing lights. You are thirsty. You have to shout to make yourself heard, and even then, you can’t understand other people’s shouting, because the music is so loud. How would you feel at the end of the day? Frazzled?

Yet, you are expecting parents of children with say language disorder or autism to tell their children, they have to go through that for 6 hours a day, 5 days a week in term time for the next 13 years, and say to DC

You need to put up, shut up and behave!”

It’s totally unrealistic and completely lacking in empathy - talk about poor parenting! That’s poor parenting right there!

The best place to start dealing with SEN in the education is proper assessment and identification for children; because educational psychologists and speech and language therapists use comprehensive standardised tests to look at IQ, memory, processing, literacy, numeracy, comprehension and expression of language - not some airy fairy discussion about screens!

My friends and I, with children with severe SEN, used to go to soft play, the park, etc in the school holidays and we’d see children, just like our own. We’d get talking to their Mum, and find she’d been running around in circles for years like a headless chicken, because she didn’t know how to play the SEN game. It’s like a special game of Poker and nobody has told her the rules!

We don’t look at our car and decide it’s passed its MOT!

ThatFirmPearlPlayer · 21/04/2025 11:54

I agree that the one size should fit all approach in education was exclusive and problematic.

But it also can't realistically be a bespoke service.

StrivingForSleep · 21/04/2025 11:47

It was never designed for a million children.

On the contrary, the official government statistics from January 2014 (so just before the reforms) show 1.49 million pupils had SEN. Down from 1.55 million in 2013. And the official government statistics from January 2015 (so just after the reforms) show 1.3 million pupils had SEN.

ETA: When I say after the reforms, I mean after the change in legislation, etc. The transition from Statements of SEN to EHCPs was still in progress.

Peony1897 · 21/04/2025 11:34

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 10:37

I don't think it constitutes making your child "the centre of the universe" to expect the school and LA to do what's legally required in a reasonably timely way.

We'd be up in arms as adults if public services we needed were routinely denied and the law was routinely broken or ignored.

Not sure why that's considered OK for vulnerable children especially when parents are contributing to what services there are, through tax.

But the law has massively overpromised and was brought in at a time that less than half of the number now had SEN. It was never designed for a million children. But they can row back without rioting, so they’re stuck.

hcee19 · 21/04/2025 11:28

I really feel sad for you. It is very frustrating , when, you only want the best for your child and are completely helpless to do that, l cannot imagine how painful and and angry you must feel. A major problem in this country is money is seriously mismanaged. When MP's etc are flying around the world, first class, paying thousands to redecorate offices, the list is never ending.... Unfortunately, it doesn't matter who leads our country , nothing will change. People who need more help than most are definitely at the bottom of the list....There is no care in the community, no care for our young children, no nothing.... l really hope something changes for you, and you get the help you so dearly need

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 10:37

I don't think it constitutes making your child "the centre of the universe" to expect the school and LA to do what's legally required in a reasonably timely way.

We'd be up in arms as adults if public services we needed were routinely denied and the law was routinely broken or ignored.

Not sure why that's considered OK for vulnerable children especially when parents are contributing to what services there are, through tax.

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 10:29

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 09:54

Fortunately the current requirements on this are detailed in the SEN Code 2014 and not based on value judgements about whether we like people's names and backgrounds or not.

It's freely available online if anyone wants to know what the actual law is.

"Divide and rule" is a tale as old as time.

Whilst every child is the centre of their parents universe ( as they should be) they're not the centre of society' universe and must learn to adapt. A tale as old as time that some entitled parents would like to ensure the world revolves around their child's needs - it does not. The sooner society as a whole shifts their perspective on this the better for everyone, including children who have differences, SEND, unique personalities, whatever challenges they face, the better. The narrative is skewed and needs a reset.

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 10:13

That's v interesting @BlueandWhitePorcelain thanks for that and I'm glad you secured the right educational setting for your daughter.

Of course teachers can't tell (on the whole). We're (mostly) not trained to make those judgements, although I expect the small number of experienced SENCOs and specialist staff may be able to. We can give our observations on what children can do in a classroom, what interventions have helped etc. We can adjust our teaching delivery, resources, explanations. We can believe what parents tell us (in the sense that behaviour can be v different at home and school).

I am a teacher and have learnt so much from parenting a SEN child that is useful at school; the other way round, not so much although occasionally it helps with jargon and procedures.

ThatFirmPearlPlayer · 21/04/2025 10:06

Snakebite61 · 21/04/2025 08:12

Wrong.

I agree.

My experience of working in public services is a great deal of time is spent slagging off other services.

I've not worked in a team that didn't seem to have a collective delusion that they were the only ones who really cared and knew what they're doing and that everyone else just wants to pass the buck.

My mental health has been badly affected for the last few years constantly wasting time defending services with workers being willfully obtuse, difficult and emotionally manipulative.

BlueandWhitePorcelain · 21/04/2025 09:56

GiveDogBone · 20/04/2025 18:37

It’s almost all down to parenting, not always but mostly. Half the kids with SEN, I can just take one look at the parents and see that it’s poor parenting that’s caused their developmental issues.

of course there are other factors, but they are all rounding errors compared to the epidemic of poor parenting that occurs in this country. Particularly amongst the those of below anverage intelligence and uneducated.

See this article:

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/120767/pdf/

It says 1.7 million children have difficulties with talking and understanding language. 7.6% of children have a long term developmental language disorder - that is nearly 1 million children or nearly 2 in every classroom. These children should form the SLCN group, but statistics indicate 400,000 are unidentified.

Some children, probably mainly boys externalise the difficulties, they have in the classroom in challenging behaviour. Girls tend to internalise their difficulties in depression and anxiety. See Melanie Cross’ book “Children with Social, Emotional and Behavioural Difficulties, with Communication Problems. There is always a Reason.”

Speech and language therapists know, the more severe the language problems, the worse the behaviour is likely to be. As the article above says, 60% of young offenders have language difficulties. Incidence of mental health problems in adulthood is double.

DD1 was in a language unit from age 4 - 10, and specialist speech and language schools from 10 - 16 for a profound language disorder. Children had to have a statement then, even to be considered for special provision - so as a minimum an assessment by an educational psychologist and speech and language therapist. To be offered a place at a specialist school, children had to undergo the school’s own rigorous assessments by a speech and language therapist, OT, possibly a physio and a specialist language teacher. I met hundreds of parents, and many were articulate, intelligent, no nonsense people, because they had to be to get their child there by tribunal - and they had to have the means to pay upto £45,000 for that tribunal. Other children were placed there by the LA, because even they recognised how severe the child’s problems were.

Speech and language therapists used to tell me, there would be children struggling in mainstream like DD1, because they hadn’t been identified - yet DD1 couldn’t understand a teacher, read the material or understand what she should be doing in a mainstream primary, never mind secondary where she’d have been even more lost, as the complex abstract language increased, which she has never been able to understand. Children with a receptive (comprehension) language disorder have impaired concept formation.

The Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists say in this publication, 1.5 million people have learning disabilities in the UK

https://www.rcslt.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/RCSLT-Learning-Disabilities-position-paper-2023.pdf

While some people with learning disabilities may have parents themselves with learning disabilities themselves, many parents of normal intelligence have children with learning disabilities - look at Down’s syndrome, which can be a spontaneous occurrence, as can other genetic conditions like Fragile X, Angelman’s syndrome, etc.

DD1 has a degenerative condition and went from age 16 to specialist schools, which had the majority of children with learning disabilities. I have never met parents there either, who I thought were below average intelligence. In fact, many of them knew as much about their children’s conditions, as their consultants.

The fact is, some inborn conditions are just as likely to occur in children of graduate professional parents, as parents of “below average intelligence.” Most lay people who met DD1 up to age 16, didn’t realise there was anything wrong with her, because she came across as intelligent, warm, kind and very funny. I wonder how teachers, never mind other parents can confidently say, what children have SEN due to poor parenting, as opposed say to an inborn severe language disorder, including impaired concept formation - given 400,000 speech and language children are unidentified?

https://www.rcslt.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/RCSLT-Learning-Disabilities-position-paper-2023.pdf

Needlenardlenoo · 21/04/2025 09:54

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 09:45

If Quentina is bored/ can't cope/ disordered/ dis-regulated or whichever new term is in vogue, Quentina needs to be taught to cope and behave appropriately by their PARENTS. It's called parental responsibility. The world doesn't revolve around Quentina and their special requirements, they need to be taught by their parents to adapt to the circumstance and society they live in.

Fortunately the current requirements on this are detailed in the SEN Code 2014 and not based on value judgements about whether we like people's names and backgrounds or not.

It's freely available online if anyone wants to know what the actual law is.

"Divide and rule" is a tale as old as time.

Sendcrisis2025 · 21/04/2025 09:53

MumofCandRA · 21/04/2025 09:45

If Quentina is bored/ can't cope/ disordered/ dis-regulated or whichever new term is in vogue, Quentina needs to be taught to cope and behave appropriately by their PARENTS. It's called parental responsibility. The world doesn't revolve around Quentina and their special requirements, they need to be taught by their parents to adapt to the circumstance and society they live in.

If a child has additional needs then you can't force them to be able to cope overnight or even quickly. It can take years. Parents are not physically in school and school throws up a whole host of scenarios and situations that are not present at home.

OP posts: