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Original poster

To say the behaviour crisis in schools can't just be blamed on parenting

416 replies

Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 12:44

I speak as a mum of two children with EHCPs and someone who is a SENDIASS officer, name changed to protect my identity/job.

There is a strong rhetoric from the teaching unions this week about behaviour in schools and poor parenting. No mention of the bigger picture, just poor parenting.

My DC are 10 and 8, just two years behind them. When DC1 was a toddler there was a huge range of groups, support, targeted interventions through the local sure start centre. These were already being cut by the time my DC2 was a toddler. Then covid happened and the services and groups have just not returned. There is no early support anymore.

One of my DC is a challenge in school, fortuantly she is predominantly a flight risk rather than violent but still a behavioural challenge. We have had one physical incident where she shoved a teacher. Pure combination of factors that had led to DC being enclosed within a corner by several children and with nowhere to escape to she shoved to escape. Unacceptable but that was the reasoning of why and she was suspended for two days etc. She struggles to cope with the sensory demands of mainstream. Too many children, too much going on. They fly through the content whereas she likes to master things in depth before moving on. Too many low level behavioural issues like children who just don't ever stop talking. She can't navigate social dynamics. None of this DC can cope with. There is a lack of consistency in the school day and the routines. None of this is the school's fault but realistically how it is in every mainstream school. We are struggling to get her moved to a specialist setting. She has no learning needs and generally with the one exception, she isnt violent so the SEMH schools are not appropriate either.

My other DC would never dream of acting out, is not a behavioural issue at all despite his needs.

Based on the unions DC is entirely due to my poor parenting. It doesnt matter that DC2 is a behavioural dream. It doesnt matter that I have no behavioural issues with DC1 at home where it is quiet, the same rigid routine for the past 6 years and less social demands. It doesnt matter that she is in a completely wrong setting.

In my LA there are over 400 children like my DC1 who have specialist agreed but are stuck in mainstream with no setting to go to. There is nowhere for them to go. These are the children with specialist agreed by the LA. This doesn't include the many hundreds more who don't have specialist agreed or don't even have EHCPs yet.

Our health trust is on 3+ years for an initial appointment. CAMHs are almost non-existent. You are only considered for medication if you are already a behavioural problem in school, it doesn't matter if a child has severe ADHD until they are at the point they can no longer cope and it is at crisis point.

Early help, if accepted, offers 6 weeks of support. There is a huge gap between early help and child in need.

I speak to parents day in day out at work who are desperate for help as their children can not cope at school.

There will always be poorly behaved children due to poor parents but the majority? The majority are children who simply cannot cope in the setting they are in with nowhere to go to.

Over 400 children in my LA with specialist agreed but stuck in mainstream. That is an incredible number.

I know my DC spends 8.45am-2pm in a small cupboard with a 1-1 TA. She joins a much younger year group for the last hour a day. She does 95% of her schoolwork with me at home.

OP posts:
StrivingForSleep · 19/04/2025 20:26

@Peony1897 you posted a child in MS is “allocated 7k a year for their education with zero other benefits or transport.” That statement isn’t correct. Nothing to do with overlap at all.

CaptainFuture · 19/04/2025 20:24

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 18:53

Or me: I know that DC is challenging and likes to do xyz for attention.
I have spoken to teachers A & B and they both found putting DC in the front of class away from friends and other disruptive pupils, DC's behaviour is vastly improved. If front row isn't possible, still try and keep DC away from close friends in class.

Problem is, a small minority of teachers ignoring me (becauseIam justa parent) .... but are happy to email or phone me complaining about certain behaviours - none of which involve throwing stuff or hurting others. Most is annoying and petty.

I am not THAT parent- DC has boundaries and knows how to behave. I am happy to work with teachers in order to improve DC behaviour. But I still think disengaged teachers can be the cause of some poor behaviour. You can highlight poor behaviour to me and I will engage with you. But for my own experience it's ok for teachers to fire off an email but never engage with the parents thereafter.

Show quote history

The entitlement reeks out of you @Sinuhe !
No wonder your DC has appalling behaviour and gets asked to leave class.
You clearly tell them good behaviour is optional, and when they do behave badly, it obviously the fault of the mean teacher!!
are happy to email or phone me complaining about certain behaviours - none of which involve throwing stuff or hurting others. Most is annoying and petty.
So have some of their behaviour involved throwing stuff and hurting others?
No repercussions for the repeated annoying and petty behaviours? How will they cope at work? Will you charge in and tell HR it's 'their manager's fault!! They won't let my cherub do what they want!!!'

Peony1897 · 19/04/2025 20:24

StrivingForSleep · 19/04/2025 20:17

Compare that to a mainstream child, who is allocated 7k a year for their education with zero other benefits or transport.

Transport isn’t limited to those in SS. Neither are DLA, therapies or hospital appointments. And some DC in MS have more funding than £7kpa.

No but the overlap is huge.

Original poster
Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 20:24

BoredZelda · 19/04/2025 20:11

It’s easy just to say “bad parents” (as so many are doing here too) because then nobody has to think about the problems in society and how we address them.

It’s also ridiculous to say disabled children are causing issues or taking education away from non SEN kids and there can’t be a bespoke system. Basically what that says is, non SEN kids are more important and deserve education. It’s entirely possible to provide a bespoke education for disabled children. It starts with providing adequate support. The reason more disabled children are pushed into mainstream is because for years people have let their local authorities get away with cutting support staff.

If we don’t educate disabled children properly, we are simply adding to the welfare and support bill for when they become adults. The country thinks we have to cut PIP because there are too many disabled people not working. The way to fix that is to make sure more disabled children are properly educated and supported.

You've articulated my feelings well.

My DC, who can not cope in her mainstream class, is incredibly intelligent. She was working at greater depth across the board until she started this year and stopped being able to access her class. She now is not receiving an education despite being in school. She has so much potential to become a functioning, contributing member of society if she is properly supported now. If we continue to fail her then that has a shockwave effect that will last well into adulthood.

OP posts:
StrivingForSleep · 19/04/2025 20:24

@Sendcrisis2025 DS3 has EOTIS now, which is far more expensive, but was in MS beforehand and had a similar amount of funding there.

Original poster
Sendcrisis2025 · 19/04/2025 20:21

StrivingForSleep · 19/04/2025 20:17

Compare that to a mainstream child, who is allocated 7k a year for their education with zero other benefits or transport.

Transport isn’t limited to those in SS. Neither are DLA, therapies or hospital appointments. And some DC in MS have more funding than £7kpa.

My DC including the bum on chair funding that all children get and her EHCP funding is bring £34000 into her mainstream school.

OP posts:
StrivingForSleep · 19/04/2025 20:17

Compare that to a mainstream child, who is allocated 7k a year for their education with zero other benefits or transport.

Transport isn’t limited to those in SS. Neither are DLA, therapies or hospital appointments. And some DC in MS have more funding than £7kpa.

Superhansrantowindsor · 19/04/2025 20:17

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 18:53

Or me: I know that DC is challenging and likes to do xyz for attention.
I have spoken to teachers A & B and they both found putting DC in the front of class away from friends and other disruptive pupils, DC's behaviour is vastly improved. If front row isn't possible, still try and keep DC away from close friends in class.

Problem is, a small minority of teachers ignoring me (becauseIam justa parent) .... but are happy to email or phone me complaining about certain behaviours - none of which involve throwing stuff or hurting others. Most is annoying and petty.

I am not THAT parent- DC has boundaries and knows how to behave. I am happy to work with teachers in order to improve DC behaviour. But I still think disengaged teachers can be the cause of some poor behaviour. You can highlight poor behaviour to me and I will engage with you. But for my own experience it's ok for teachers to fire off an email but never engage with the parents thereafter.

Show quote history

What do you do when the teacher emails you to tell you your child had to be removed from the lesson? What punishment do you give your child? I am curious to know why he keeps on getting sent out.

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 20:16

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 20:08

How does that solve the problems that I listed?

Show quote history

Pupil behaviour - better educated calibre of teacher - stronger personality etc. Also attracts men into the profession
Workload - better financial reward, similar workload to other professions law, accounting, medical etc - attracting those better able to manage it.
Poor management - will either be managed up or out by up and coming better people
public perception - again, attract more men with better pay and conditions
MSM - nobody takes any notice anymore
SM - as above
Parents etc - again I doubt men would be “confronted” with as much disrespect.
My daughter verbally wipes the floor with stupid parents who havent the mental capacity to even process whats just been said to them nevermind complain about. They leave with their tail between their legs.

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 19/04/2025 20:14

MumofCandRA · 19/04/2025 13:49

Lack of sleep, poor diet, screens, social media, permissive parenting, no boundaries. All of these should be explored on depth for children who need support, prior to any referral for SEND assessment. It's insane that the first assumption is a child has special needs and should be referred for diagnosis, before all of the above factors are ruled out. Some will of course have special needs, but unless environmental factors are ruled out how can you be sure?

Could not agree more

BoredZelda · 19/04/2025 20:11

It’s easy just to say “bad parents” (as so many are doing here too) because then nobody has to think about the problems in society and how we address them.

It’s also ridiculous to say disabled children are causing issues or taking education away from non SEN kids and there can’t be a bespoke system. Basically what that says is, non SEN kids are more important and deserve education. It’s entirely possible to provide a bespoke education for disabled children. It starts with providing adequate support. The reason more disabled children are pushed into mainstream is because for years people have let their local authorities get away with cutting support staff.

If we don’t educate disabled children properly, we are simply adding to the welfare and support bill for when they become adults. The country thinks we have to cut PIP because there are too many disabled people not working. The way to fix that is to make sure more disabled children are properly educated and supported.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 20:08

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 20:01

Most of which could be circumvented by paying £35,000 in the first year. My other child with a 2.2 has gone into tech sales on that starting salary.
To attract the best they need to at least be ballpark competitive, not £20,000 light in some subjects

Show quote history

How does that solve the problems that I listed?

Helen1625 · 19/04/2025 20:05

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:14

There is.

Why is there such poor retention in teaching? It goes far beyond poor behaviour in the classroom.

Show quote history

Poor retention because of the shit that they have to put up with. 30 children in a class. 30 parents who have different styles of parenting. Some who support school. Some who have no respect for school or teachers. Some who teach their children right from wrong. Some children who are 'dragged up'. Parents who actually 'parent'. Parents who can't be bothered. Naughty children. Parents who excuse the child's bad behaviour. Parents who blame teachers. Parents who make demands. Parents who bring their children in late. Parents who collect their children late. Parents who have no boundaries. Children coming in tired because they don't have a regular bed time. Children who have never heard the word 'no'. THAT'S why teachers are leaving teaching!

jasflowers · 19/04/2025 20:02

Snorlaxo · 19/04/2025 12:53

Try not to take what the unions say seriously.

There is a definite unspoken rule that the different services don’t slag each other off. For example they wouldn’t blame social services for not monitoring parents who need support because SS are like education and firefighting due to lack of resources. Going after other services is going to bite them in the arse at a future date.

Of course there’s multiple reasons why behaviour in schools is poor. Parenting is a convenient stick to use because there’s no person speaking on behalf of all parents who can point to other issues in education.

If 10yo boys are blocking female teachers into class rooms, 10yo's barking at female teachers and 10yo's refusing to even speak to a female teacher, then yes 100% on the parents.

Where else do you think they pick up these disgusting behaviors from???

When parents are then called in to confront these behaviors, its the teachers fault... you sound exactly like this type of parent "My child can do no wrong"

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 20:01

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:57

In what way is the recruitment process to blame?
Schools can only pick from what is in front of them.

There are many reasons why people don't want to be teachers, not of that is down to the recruitment process.
Pupil behaviour
Workload
Poor management
public perception
MSM
SM
Parents etc.

Show quote history

Most of which could be circumvented by paying £35,000 in the first year. My other child with a 2.2 has gone into tech sales on that starting salary.
To attract the best they need to at least be ballpark competitive, not £20,000 light in some subjects

Helen1625 · 19/04/2025 19:59

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:31

He has missed the lessons due to his "challenging" behaviour.
It was started by you not ensuring that your DS understands that his behaviour is not suitable in a classroom.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

Its when you DS decides that he wants to behave. It is your job to make sure that he understands that he needs to behave at all times.

Show quote history

Sounds very much to me like Sinuhe has a lack of respect for one teacher in particular and therefore the child has a lack of respect for that teacher. Her child's behaviour is 'chosen', behaves for the ones they respect (or mom respects) and doesn't behave for this one because he/she knows mom will always make an excuse for him/her.

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:57

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

Show quote history

So how are you expecting things will get better? If the recruitment bar was higher, there would be even fewer teachers than there are now (still not enough). We can slag off students but that doesn't improve anything, nor does constant supply or collapsed classes.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:57

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

Show quote history

In what way is the recruitment process to blame?
Schools can only pick from what is in front of them.

There are many reasons why people don't want to be teachers, not of that is down to the recruitment process.
Pupil behaviour
Workload
Poor management
public perception
MSM
SM
Parents etc.

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:46

CherryBlossom321 · 19/04/2025 19:28

Agree. There’s a multi academy trust in our area and they are taking on whoever they can get. There are both teaching, and non teaching staff not able to communicate or connect effectively with students, with little to no experience, and in some cases a fairly limited skill set and lack of maturity. Friends in other areas to us are talking about the same problem.

Show quote history

Absolutely agree with the level of maturity as well. I was lambasted for an issue surrounding punctuality. And when I took in copies of court orders that compel me to hand the children over 50% of the time to the X who lives two hours away and gets caught in traffic every single morning.
I was told to disobey the court orders by someone on reception 🤣

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:44

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:38

The way out of this problem is definitely blaming teachers....

Show quote history

I blame the teacher recruiting process. My daughter is now only 12 months in and already she is responsible for trainees.
It’s the blind leading the blind, she’s been tempted to set up weekly spelling tests for some.

Hercisback1 · 19/04/2025 19:38

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

Show quote history

The way out of this problem is definitely blaming teachers....

LlynTegid · 19/04/2025 19:35

Parents are a part of the issue though not 100%.

Remember children missed out on more in class education in 2020 than should have been the case. Reopening pubs and cheap fast food was seen as more important.

Then look at some of the people who have been education secretary in recent years.

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:33

Withoutfearorfavour · 19/04/2025 19:20

One of my children is a teacher at the moment. Three a star a levels. First class honours degree plus PGCE.

Most of her peers around the same age, Group are thick as pig shit and at the same educational level as the children that they’re teaching.
The rubbish pay and conditions have attracted a calibre of teachers that just simply wouldn’t have been tolerated 15 years ago
An enormous part of the problem that everybody’s avoiding commentating on

Show quote history

Thank you.

Unfortunately to the majority on this thread it's poor parenting not poor teaching or poor teacher training.

Calmdownpeople · 19/04/2025 19:31

Peony1897 · 19/04/2025 13:16

I think we hit the sweet spot from 90s-2000s.

I think the loss of playing out and the rise of screens has been catastrophic for children’s MH.

Show quote history

Totally agree.

Ask any teacher and they will say it’s social media, screens, permissive parenting etc.

Of course children with SEN need additional help but this has always been true - there isn’t just magically SEN kids in 2025.

Entitled parents, over regulation, poor behaviour etc are causing our schools to miss function.

The absolute crap theta schools, heads and teachers have to put up with is shocking. Literally shocking.

There are endless posts on here abiut complaints to the school, to the head, governors and ofsted for ridiculously small things - my kid didn’t get their preferred locker, they aren’t sitting where they want, another kid pushed them and the school didn’t expel the other kid etc etc

Who would want to be an educator these days.

FrippEnos · 19/04/2025 19:31

Sinuhe · 19/04/2025 19:27

The teacher also continues the behaviour because now DC has missed some of the lessons content ... so next time DC struggling to follow which results in poor behaviour... and being sent out again.... it's a cycle that definitely wasn't started by myself.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

Show quote history

He has missed the lessons due to his "challenging" behaviour.
It was started by you not ensuring that your DS understands that his behaviour is not suitable in a classroom.

You also need to understand that the poor behaviour isn't across the bord it's not even subject related.

Its when you DS decides that he wants to behave. It is your job to make sure that he understands that he needs to behave at all times.