I don’t like shy children

Actually, I think it may be useful for shy people to see how behaviour they think doesn’t impact anyone else actually translates.

For instance, I notice a weird kind of entitlement in some ‘Nobody talks to me at school pick-up’ posts on here, as though the onus is always on the other people to include them, having somehow intuited that standing alone means they are desperate to talk and in fact have a heart of gold under an uninterested-looking exterior. I’m not suggesting they don’t, obviously, but it’s expecting an awful lot of total strangers to intuit how you’d like to be treated, and decide whether ‘monosyllabic’ means ‘Go away, not interested, just here to pick up child and get on with my day’ or ‘I’m desperate to talk to you but crippled by extreme shyness’, and, if they decide the latter is the case, to persevere with someone who gives every indication of wishing they’d sod off.

Absolutely

as an ex shy child believe me I did not feel self important or self absorbed, I felt SCARED.

If this thread is showing anything is that a lot of people never grow out of their mean girl phase, shy or not.

👏👏

I experienced quite a bit of first-sight, unexplainable hatred from adults as a child. But seeing the hatred for shy kids, which I absolutely was, expressed here online, it explains a lot.

It makes me a bit sad for my former child-self, but as an adult it no longer matters. I now have the option who I spend my time with, at least when I am not at work.

Extroverts perceive introverts and quiet people as being shy, and claim that is a bad quality.

I recommend reading Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking. It'll show you all the good things about being 'shy'. Hopefully you can share that with her and have a discussion.

This weird, damaging intro/extrovert divide has real life consequences. I'm sure we all know of work situations where the wrong person was appointed because they were loud and could talk well at interview, but it turns out they're shit at the actual job.

I can understand where your child might be coming from I think. I come from a family who are forthright with their communications and I suspect I was uncomfortable when I was a child with people who weren’t as forthcoming. Of course I learnt as I got older that there’s a lot to be said for observing before you open your mouth and I’m sure she will begin to understand that differences can be a good thing.

Children just say how they feel and don’t worry about being kind. As adults we learn what is socially acceptable, we don’t say it out loud though we may still think it. Though apparently even judging inwardly can make you a bad person especially on MN where a negative thought isn’t allowed about anyone or anything otherwise you are horrible.

Being an introvert means people need time to recharge alone it does not mean they are shy at all. DH is an actual introvert, he is incredibly sociable and not in the least bit shy but needs time alone to recharge. On MN people use it to describe shy, anxious or anti social people.

It’s also ok to not like everyone. We can only make ourselves happy but it’s ok to dodge people whose company we don’t enjoy.

This is mean and not constructive. Maybe think about where this is coming from and do some work on yourself.

There's this too. It's difficult always being the leader or the one to make stuff fun.

I've had this with my older child on a playdate before. He's usually very extroverted and buzzy, but for some reason he just wanted to sit quietly and read the other child's books. All very well, but the mother had invited him over because her child had been mostly at home reading and was bored and wanted a friend to play with.

Yes, it really has shocked me, hearing some of the comments suggesting shy people are somehow "self-imortant."

Your experiences and my own, and those of many, many others I know, are that shy people have often been taught that there is something wrong with them, that stands out for everyone to see, whether it's odd clothes or a facial feature or whatever bullies/abusive teachers and/or parents have chosen to belittle them with.

Also, shy people are often desperately trying to assess their safety, so are actually hyperfocused on others, trying to guess what others want them to say or do. I get this can seem self-absorbed in a sense, but it's usually due to having had bad experiences (whether abusive or smaller, difficult circumstances that add up). People who haven't been disabled in that way could try to be more understanding, even if (fair enough) they choose to interact instead with more confident people.

I'd just explain to my child, in this instance, that it doesn't mean the shy children dislike her, just that everyone is different. I think it's important, whatever her age, that her assumption that shyness means dislike is corrected, in a gentle and age-appropriate way, but of course if she prefers to play with someone else that's fine, as long as she's polite about it.

I was also a shy child and am pleased that although my son is quiet he is not socially awkward like me. Have a conversation with her but she is only young and entitled to her opinion. I remember an actress saying she didn’t like shy people . Fay somebody off cold feet. I decided I didn’t like her after that. It says more about them.

It sounds like your family were a large part of the issue. We internalise what we hear from those who are closest to us. If, for example, your mother is constantly telling you not to chatter and your cousins, who you're around frequently, are unkind to you rather than valuing you as a person, then of course you're going to internalise the message that you don't have anything valuable to add.

That's on the adults. They should have been working to make sure all the children in the family felt valued and appreciated.

This sounds like a classic case of confusing talking a lot with actually having social skills. Sadly very common even amongst adults.

I have a new friend who I hope will, over time, become a really good friend. We are part of the same hobby group and initially she didn't say a single word unless it was in a one to one situation. Even then she looked massively uncomfortable. Over many, many weeks it has come out that she was brought up as a Quaker by very very old fashioned parents. Children were to be seen but definitely not heard. If they visited another family on a Sunday after the meeting house( which they always did) then she and her brothers were to take something completely silent with them and to sit in a line on the sofa and not say a single word unless directly spoken to. At that point they were to answer in a way their parents deemed appropriate. Their responses would be picked apart for improvement at home later . Minus the religion bit my childhood was just like this and it began from when we were tiny . It wasn't until I left home that I realised I had a voice that I could use freely and that I liked people and was actually likeable to them .Op you and your daughter have no idea of any other child's life and what has been dinned into them about acceptable behaviours/ what they see at home. My father was autistic. He had a script that he relied on in social situations and he relied on my mother to steer any conversation that was veering away from the 'comfortable topics area' back to a place where he could appear witty and 'at home'.He never ever went anywhere that was a non work event without her. All of this went completely over my head as a child and it was easier just to sit quietly and observe which probably meant people thought I was aloof/ bored/ felt I was superior. No I was just an awkward little girl who wanted to run off and play with a new friend but had no idea how to actually do it and was wary of the inevitable " I thought you were very noisy today" and God forbid" Your father and I thought you talked too much today" comments that would follow later. Cut quiet children some slack Op. You've no idea how batshit their home life may be

Actually, I also had a large extended family. Unlike yours, though, they were less inclined to give me the 'that's just Obelix' grace. They further shamed me into shutting up, to be honest.

One relative, though, was not like that. She talked to me like I was an adult. She listened. And because she listened, I did too.

Indeed! OP, you’re right that life will be easier for her but in some ways it will be harder work.

I was a very shy, awkward child but as an adult I’m much more comfortable with myself, am quite chatty and am particularly outgoing and confident at work (although I do still suffer from some social anxiety, it seems to show up more in my personal life).

I work in an area that attracts a lot of quiet people - some are introverted, some are socially anxious, some are neurodiverse (and yes I know that doesn’t always make people shy but sometimes it does). I do my best to structure meetings and activities (if I’m running them) in a way that includes and encourages everyone to contribute, and doesn’t just favour people who can easily chat and think on the spot. I have a reputation for being kind and inclusive which I’m proud of.

But you know what? It can get really exhausting. It’s exhausting often having to start a conversation while not talking too much and encouraging others to join in. It’s exhausting having to judge when to go ahead and speak first, and when to hang back to encourage others.

The shyer, quieter people are working hard in their own way, but they perhaps don’t see that it’s also hard work for people who aren’t like them - as you say, you only ever saw it from your own point of view, and as per posts like @Fizbosshoes about finding leader types annoying. You assume that being that type of person is easy and takes no emotional energy. Sometimes I’m exhausted and wish others would step up with this stuff more.

So I think there’s lots to teach your daughter here, but please, understand that it takes some emotional energy and skill to navigate around shyer, more introverted people and help her learn that if you can.

I was generally quite a quiet child but I also had occasions of talking too much and being a bit socially inept so I empathise.

I was lucky as a child to have a fairly large extended family and my parents had a fair number of friends so I got lots of social "practice", as it were, in non-threatening social situations where people accepted that "CrispieCake is just like this" and I learned to enjoy social interactions in my own way. That gives confidence for when you're in a group of unfamiliar people and have to navigate situations on your own.

I feel a little sorry for children nowadays since families are much smaller and people don't seem to have large groups of friends or entertain and have gatherings in the same way I did when growing up. For shy "extrovert" children especially, this can build social interaction up into something hostile and scary, amongst unfamiliar people, rather than simply being about having good fun.

And of course you learn through practice, don't you? If you're a "chatterer", you learn to moderate this and let others speak and get better at having conversations and actually listening, through having opportunities to practice these social skills. And if you are shy, you learn that actually you do have a right to take up space and be heard, and ways to do this.

Look at all the introverts on the thread attacking a child. Saying it’s not all about her. It’s not all about you either!

I think she’ll find that out by herself naturally, like we all do.

Absolutely this. No one wants to be around someone who looks as if they’d rather be doing literally anything else.

But the converse is also true, surely. A shy person is statistically just as likely to turn out to be dull or awful as someone socially confident — timidity doesn’t necessarily hide a heart of gold. No one is thinking ‘I’d better persevere with this person who is such hard work, because I know once I’ve persuaded her to open up, she’ll be wonderful, because shy people always are’. They’ll make a couple of overtures, not get anywhere and move on to someone who’s less hard work and just as like,ply to be nice.

Exactly this, and to respect that people might not want to play or join in just because she does.

IME conversations with shy/quiet people can be hard work but absolutely worth it once you strike a connection.

OP your daughter may or may not learn that real friendship comes from developing those connections whether shy or not.

Other people aren’t simply existing for one’s own use or entertainment.