AIBU to think getting into teaching should be easier?

Having a pHD in an academic subject doesn't mean you can teach it. It's a particular skill and everyone teaching should have training in child development and an understanding of pedagogy.
The worse teachers are those who know a subject well but have no idea about either child development or how to explain their subject to others or understand why other people may find it difficult.

This.... you wouldn't work as a doctor without being qualified as a doctor..it's insulting to teachers to suggest that anyone can do it just because they have the subject knowledge. There is more to it than that.

I don’t know why the teaching profession is so undervalued in this country, but it speaks volumes that even people who want to do it think it’s not with training for

Exactly!

OP hasn't been back I see.

There are bursaries for Science, which OP's friend would know had they done any research at all.

I think it's appalling that someone with no experience in teaching children thinks they can rock up at a school with an academic qualification only and think they'll be welcomed with open arms. Everyone wants to teach A level, because the children are there through choice and they tend to be the more academic sort. Mind-boggling that someone with a PhD has no common sense really.

YABU.

Of course teachers need to have actual training in how to teach.

Knowing a subject and being able to teach it are two entirely different things. There are a ridiculous amount of hopeless teachers around these days so if anything it should be more difficult for people to get into the job.

You’re equating the ability to achieve a PhD with the ability to teach. They aren’t the same and secondary schools are looking for skilled teachers across the age range, not someone who fancies teaching A level.

The worst teacher I ever saw, was the most qualified. He had a PhD but was unable to manage a year 7 class and quite unable to teach in a way that the children understood.

Teaching is a skill.

You can have all the subject knowledge in the world, but that won't help you manage the demands and behaviour of up to 30 16-18yos.
Yes, they've chosen to be there, but they're still teenagers with everything that "being a teenager" entails.

As others have said, if your friend is thinking of training to teach a STEM subject, they should receive a bursary, which will cover fees and give them some left over for the year.

I like teaching A level, it's a very different skill to teaching 11/12 year olds though. Your friend would need to be able to do both, unless they chose to teach, for example, in a 6th form college.

They don't require the PGCE but the Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) part. That's the only bit you need. Some Uni's offer the PGCE without QTS - but that wouldn't allow you to teach as a qualified teacher as you wouldn't have the QTS part.

I know two people who did PGCE (after degrees in ceramics and drama) who are struggling with the ‘people’ side of teaching. I suspect the kids in their classes aren’t having the best experience either.

Only LA maintained state schools require teachers to have a PGCE, by the way.

Private schools and academy schools (i.e. most secondary schools in England) can legally hire and pay people as teachers without them having a teaching qualification.

The reality is that this is increasingly rare, and usually only done in academy chains as a cost-cutting measure (you can pay unqualified teachers much less). Private schools need to be able to sell a well-qualified teaching staff to parents to justify the fees in an increasingly squeezed market, so anyone with a PhD in a private school would, 99% of the time, have a PGCE too. I've worked in independent schools for over a decade and never come across a colleague without a PGCE. The 'private schools can hire anyone they like' line that gets trotted out on mumsnet all the time is a myth.

PhDs do not train you to teach, they train you to research. They also give you a very narrow subject specialism that is largely useless in the secondary school classroom, so it's not really a passport to a teaching job. It's not surprising to me that the OP's friend hasn't found a school willing to take her on, as she'd need someone to mentor her and train her.

However, as others have said, she'll very easily get onto a graduate teacher training programme, which is pretty well remunerated these days. After that first year, she will be able to pick and choose jobs, as science teachers are as rare as hen's teeth these days (unless she's Biology). It's short term pain for long term gain.

What I will say though, as someone who has been teaching for a long time, is that the PGCE is not really worth the paper it's written on. The benefit of a teacher training year is the learning on the job from experienced teachers, who guide you through the process of how to plan and teach effectively. The academic side of a PGCE is a load of bollocks - pedagogy is a pseudoscience, after all - as are MA degrees in Education and Education Management and so on - teaching is instinctive and relational, and strategies that work for one child don't for another. Teaching can't be learnt from books and writing essays - good teaching is a mixture of natural talent and experience. It can be done very well by people without a teaching qualification - having a teaching qualification doesn't mean you're any good at the job!

QTS is what gives you the right to teach in the UK. You can't teach (apart from in the Private sector) without it. PGCE is an internationally recognised qual that is worth having if you want to teach abroad for example, NZ, AUS but don't need it in the UK, only QTS which can be gained through Teach First, Schools Direct or the Apprenticeship route. BE'd is another way at undergraduate level.

What school would take on someone for QTS status if they've not bothered to get a teaching qualification?

I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding there, most secondary schools require their teachers to have QTS which is Qualified Teacher Status. The PGCE is academic qualification studied alongside working towards QTS, good to have but not essential.

Schools will want the best/experienced teachers teaching their A level classes.

And have logistics/management factors to work with...not just the preferences of someone with a PhD who wants to cherry pick.

If a school has for example, only enough chemistry students for one class each in Y12/Y13, then that would only require c 10 hours teaching per week. What would your friend do for the rest of the week if they only teach A level have zero skills to teach KS3/4?

Combined with this schools often split the A level syllabus between 2 teachers...eg, one does organic, one does physical, playing to the teacher's strengths. It also mitigates the risk of only having one teacher...in case they leave/get run over by a bus. This would reduce the a level timetable to 5 hours a week if they only taught a level...

A PhD, non qualified teacher is not such an attractive option when weighed up with the practical factors?

I'm really good at driving. It doesn't mean I can just get a job as a driving instructor. Or should be able to.

In the past I have dealt with trainees who, while they had a great undergrad degree, couldn’t teach for toffee and ended up failing their PGCE. I also have friends with PHDs who work in academia who acknowledge they prefer research and teaching is not for them.
Getting into teaching should not be easy as already there are many people who do it who aren’t suited but unis are quite happy to take their money.

My XH was very well qualified in maths. He decided he wanted to be a teacher. I (who worked in a school with teachers ever day) tried tactfully to tell him that he didn't have what it took to teach. He was diffident to the point of invisibility, had a very quiet voice and hated conflict in any form and couldn't organise himself at all. He was adamant that he was going to be a teacher.

He was thrown off the PGCE.

This is just to illustrate that you can be very intelligent and know your subject backwards, but you need more than that to be a teacher.

You're not being OTT, you're being a good parent.
.Sorry, I thought the A* grade meant they are doing A levels.
I would definitely set up a meeting with the Head of Subject and/or Head of KS4. I always want to be informed about this, and it helps us to manage poorer teachers out. Something definitely needs to be put in place to improve matters.
Please use "lack of feedback" as part of your evidence, that is very problematic.

First reply nailed it. Not everyone can teach. It’s a skill that needs to be qualified.

This will bells on.

A PHD is largely irrelevant - you're teaching 14yr olds. They don't need that level of expertise. What they do need is someone who has been explicitly taught the principles of differentiation, how to question effectively, methodologies of assessment, an understanding of learning barriers and how to support students with complex learning needs.

My undergrad in English is relevant and I draw on it a lot in teaching. My PGDE and masters in education is what makes me an effective practitioner.

It's actually quite insulting to teachers to assume anyone with subject knowledge can teach.

I’m pleased I posted on here. I’ve just put a post on secondary education asking for advice as this got me thinking. Thank you for that. It’s hard to know if I’m being OTT and getting too involved so it’s good to get perspective. DC is going GCSE but goes to show teaching isn’t for everyone.

You can train on the job. We have had several members of staff who have worked at our school while having a day out each week to do their QTS programme. However, they had all already worked with us for several years (as TAs or Nursery Nurses) and we knew they would make good teachers. We wouldn't take someone on with no teaching experience to do that, unless as a TA. Though taking on a TA role is one way of gaining some experience before eventually becoming a teacher.

You can be an expert on a subject but that does not give you the ability to be able to know how to 'teach' the subject. This is why the profession is often slated, you need much more that great subject knowledge (whilst that is also key) to be an effective teacher. You don't just pitch up, speak at the children and Ta da! they have learnt something. The PGCE is the theory side of teaching, whilst the QTS is gained through the practical side. You can train to teach without PGCE but you will need QTS to be able to teach, this can be achieved through Schools Direct etc but will still have an element of the theory behind educating children, usually through a partner University or their own approved provider.

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