AIBU to think getting into teaching should be easier?

Katherine Birbalsingh mentioned this recently - she said she's had great success getting people into teaching this way and that teachers coming this route can learn on the job in the same way that PGCE trainee teachers learn on the job.

I have a PhD in maths and am currently doing my teacher training. My PhD has been fuck all use so far. I’m really good at maths. It’s always come naturally to me. That does not in any way help me explain it to kids who struggle with maths because they just don’t see it the same way as me. I know the syllabus extremely well, I could easily get a grade 9 if I sat the GCSE exam now, it does not make me a good teacher.

My mentor on the other hand actually trained as a primary teacher originally, is not a maths specialist, and only teaches the foundation syllabus because she’s not confident with the material on the higher syllabus. She is a fantastic maths teacher and I’ve learned so much from her.

If you’ve been to university surely you know that having a PhD doesn’t make you a good teacher. There are lots of lecturers who are really well respected in their field of research who still manage to be rubbish at teaching.

You don’t need a PGCE to teach in UK state secondary schools though, you only need QTS. You also don’t need QTS to teach in further education. I taught a GCSE resit class to post 16s for a few years without being qualified. There are a few different routes to get that. If your friend is serious about wanting to teach, googling “get into teaching” will bring up details of how to go about it and who to phone for advice.

Assuming that a PhD should be enough to get a job as a teacher is very naive. Teaching is a very challenging skill to master, and one that is not really connected to academic ability. I thought a PhD in the subject I want to teach, plus seven years teaching experience prior to starting my training, would make it fairly easy for me. It’s been quite a shock discovering how little I know. If you want to be a good teacher, regardless of how good your academic qualifications are, you have to leave your ego at the door.

She might make an excellent teacher. So why doesn't she make a proper go of it instead of trying to take a short cut?

You would be amazed at how many people think they can, and then some even write outraged emails asking why they haven't been shortlisted..

As part of teacher interviews a lesson generally has to be prepared, resourced and delivered, there is always a huge difference in quality from those who have completed a PGCE and know how to construct and deliver a lesson and those who haven't, or have taught post 16. Having excellent subject knowledge and knowing how to teach it to teenagers are 2 very different things.

Yes-how do you feel having read all of the posts?

Because you need to do the Greys Anatomy conversion course, silly billy. Do you have a 3D printer to knock up body parts?

This agree with , I’d like to move career to similar to nursing but wound have to spend 3 years getting a MSc which costs then low wages. So I think I’m going to have to park the idea but it’s an area they are desperate for people to join.

I agree teaching needs a very specific set of skills and the PGCE gives that. I would imagine private schools may not be recruiting?

I see the OP hasn't come back to justify her view that teaching jobs should be handed out to whoever the hell wants them.

Sadly, I have seen a few of those where the adult had come from a 6th form college background.

Do you mean what did they do in their lesson? If so, they stood at the front of the classroom, with a script in their hand, and read from it, like you might see in a university lecture (though actually even as a uni student I only remember the most old-school of lecturers doing this). Not a single activity, no questions to check for understanding, no dialogue with students at all. I've never seen a sixth form lesson like it in the 15 years I've been an educator! They had literally no understanding at all of how to teach to non-adults.

If you think reputable private schools employ unqualified staff any more than state schools do, you'll find the private ones generally list all staff, with qualifications and often universities, on their websites (it's a sales point especially when they've been to Oxbridge) but state schools generally just list senior staff and heads of departments, if that, and don't generally list qualifications or place of study.

Draw from that what conclusions you will.

It's always via an externally provided scheme, however - it has to be in order for QTS to be awarded.

@ReadTheBlurb out of interest what did they do

This, plus there are some schools who offer teacher training whilst employed.

Repeating as this thread is a waste of time.

Do these people get paid to post, to increase ‘clicks’ and advertising revenue?

Or just another teacher bashing thread?

www.ucas.com/teaching-option/researchers-schools-including-maths-and-physics-chairs-programme

Fir crying out loud....they largely now do not!! Agree with everything else you said but that. I've worked in PS since 2004..the older generation of unqualified staff have aged out (most of them fantastic teachers actually, albeit in the more traditional and formal environment you find in PS) and nowadays, any new teacher taken on without QTS gets put on a qualifying course straightaway and is monitored and mentored internally. I've only known one such who left after a year where it was clear that their Oxbridge degree dud not qualify them to deal with 9F on a wet Friday. Please can this idea about PS employing unqualified staff routinely be put to rest.

Yabu

However there are lots of schemes to get PhD students into teaching or to work on the job like teach first so she can get paid while training

An independent school might take her on without training if they're desperate

Your last sentence unfortunately sums up many people’s views on teaching.

The OP’s friend needs to do some more research as many people have pointed out that there are many different ways to get into teaching. She definitely needs to either apply to a sixth form college if she only wants to teach 16+ students. Like previous posters have mentioned everyone would like to teach A level so it’s unlikely that she would be allowed to only teach A level in a 11-19 setting because practically there won’t be enough hours to make up a full timetable and schools are unlikely to give all their A level teaching to just one teacher.
Hopefully she will realise that teaching is a skill and although subject knowledge is important it is still important to learn the skills needed to teach. The fact that new teachers are now not fully qualified for two years after gaining their QTS shows you how vigorous the training is.
Good luck to her but really she needs to change her approach to the whole situation if she wants to gain employment.
I find it sad that private schools have lower standards and are happily employing unqualified teachers.

I'm an A-level teacher delivering a post-16 specialist subject in an academy. We recently interviewed for a new staff member and due to our status as an academy, we can choose to recruit unqualified teachers. We took a punt on interviewing a PhD student/uni lecturer, along with a current PGCE trainee. As part of the process they each had to deliver a lesson (standard practice in teaching interviews). Despite all of their academic knowledge and wisdom, the PhD candidate's lesson was horrendous compared to the trainee. The PhD person literally stood in one spot in the room and talked at my class of 16 year olds for 45 minutes as they sat there, glazed over and bored out of their minds. The PGCE student used age-appropriate pedagogical strategies to engage the class, and despite clearly having significantly less knowledge of the subject matter, my student learned far more from their lesson. So yes, YABVU to assume someone will be a good teacher just because they're book smart!

A pgce teaches you how to teach. Having qualifications in a subject isn't enough

DH has a PhD and taught undergraduates, he’s not suitable to teach a level students.

Everyone I know who teaches a level teaches another subject but their own. The teaching is the skilled bit, they don’t need to understand it to PhD level, just be ahead of the students.