to put a positive spin on going to the male toilets if I must

Good point. Why would OP not know exactly what was proposed, how it was carried out and the success (or not) of the outcome? Given the huge risk of complications whether you choose a origami-esque ‘penile inversion’ or the more complicated procedure that takes a piece of the bowel (and often ends up with a permanent stench that has already been a major factor some suicides), I’d be very keen to know the full details.

We are taking OPs word for it that surgery has taken place.

You may not understand how it is detrimental for you and all women to allow men into our spaces but it is still detrimental.

You may like being extra kind to men but try and also consider the feelings of women who don’t want our spaces given away.

I’m going to talk seriously about this, although I know it will get lost in the chaos. You need to understand that it’s not transphobia that has brought most women to the point of pushing back. It’s not about trans rights, or at least not about any specific right. It’s about the impact on women of the combination of things that trans activists have been pushing for. Very, very few of us care if a trans woman quietly uses a public loo. Or if a post-bottom-op trans woman is treated on a woman’s ward. But what has been demanded is self ID plus TW=W, meaning that all men who claim to feel like a woman today should be treated in all ways like women. Which led to us being expected to allow people like this guy https://news.sky.com/story/amp/defendant-denies-dumping-soiled-adult-nappies-at-childrens-nurseries-13049728 into women’s refuges, sports, breast feeding groups, women’s wards and rape support services. And to claim he’s not a woman is hate speech.

so if you want to be part of the solution rather than just the argument then push for third spaces, or for provisions for trans women that also respect the very real concerns of women and the very real fact that a minority of men are predators and many are willing to do absolutely anything to get to their victims.

Given its been clearly discussed in the news all the men in the country are now well versed that you have a sex based right to use male toilets etc and are protected from harassment under gender reassignment. They should not say anything to you and if they do they will be bteaking the law. Hopefully through time your fellow people might start advocating for more 3rd spaces for you.

I have a trans sibling. Many of their friends are also trans people.

What a thoroughly bizarre standpoint. Why would you be 'appalled' that literally HALF of the ENTIRE population has reclaimed the right to single-sex spaces!?

Is protecting the safety of women & girls not enough 'positive spin' ?

98% of sexual crimes are committed by biological men. And within that, transwomen are five times more likely to be imprisoned for sexual offences.

I suggest you also educate yourself on AGPs.

And regardless of that, what about open changing rooms? Are you happy to undress in front of a biological man? For a biological man to get naked in front of you?

Would I want a trans woman to venture in to a male toilet to make people with xx chromosomes feel more comfortable? Absolutely not that would be awful. Probably far more likely to suffer abuse etc...

Well, yes.

Because men are far more likely to be abusive to other people than women are. Especially physically.

If I was going to have such radical surgery I'd want to know in very great detail what was going to be done.

The problem isn’t genuine trans women wanting to use ladies toilets. It’s the chancers (men) who have quickly cottoned on to the fact that you can now just state that you are a woman and everyone has to treat you as such and allow you access to women only spaces.
Like the rapist who wanted to serve his time in a women’s prison, or the pervert who wanted to be searched at the airport by a woman security official.

Trans rights in these matters endanger women, not from genuine trans women, but from those using the rights to abuse the societal framework they lead to, to their own criminal or sexually depraved ends.
Trans women should understand this, but apparently a large proportion of them (perhaps because they’re actually men and don’t have that instinct for wariness) don’t and prefer to prioritise their own well being over that of 50% of the population - women.

Hopefully, they will feel confident in doing so now and we are backed by the law if they don't. Certainly I wouldn't have felt the law was on my side if I'd had an issue previously.

Personally I've not noticed a trans woman in the loo, although I'm sure they've been there. I'm not frightened of trans women. My fear is men "identifying" as women and single sex spaces no longer being safe. The angry, aggressive, bullish men who claim to be women in an attempt to frighten us or turn themselves on are my fear.

Regardless of whether you personally understand it or not, women have a right to single sex spaces.

You are right. It was available to use before. yes. You are correct there.

We need to start the campaigns to get organisations to use those exceptions which they hadn’t before (as you pointed out).

I didn't think that was any different before, though? There's always been the option for single sex spaces, it's just that businesses/charities were too nervous to enforce them for fear of being called transphobic.

“They aren't men, don't act or look like men.”

Yes. They are. And they are as per the EA. Just because you choose to believe that they are not men, if they were born male, they are men.

And you obviously have trouble correctly sexing a male person using male body cues and during some interaction (even just seeing them move). It is highly likely that most other female people will correctly sex a male person regardless of what they are wearing.

You obviously don’t understand that traumatised female people don’t need to have been abused by a male with a transgender identity. It is the male cues they respond to.

And I have been abused by a male person with a transgender identity, so what do you think I should do? Self exclude from using female public toilets? Because you, personally, can’t see the issue?

Plus female people use toilets for far more than just peeing. And our toilet usage is not restricted to cubicles either. If you have never needed privacy to use the toilet space other than within the cubicle, lucky you. Female people have needs that you obviously don’t. Yet you are here to tell us all what we need.

You would expect? Do you not know?

So you are talking about a handful of people who knew them prior to transitioning, not the general public?

.

If they don’t act or look like men why would they get verbal abuse and stares?

Just been reading through a few threads and realised I'm probably on to a losing battle with this view so I'll leave it there.

Why do they care though? Id like to know what the problem could be as I'm genuinely baffled. I understand some people may have awful histories of abuse etc that leave them feeling very vulnerable to be in a space with a male, but unless you've specifically been targeted by a trans female I fail to see how it would be triggering.

They aren't men, don't act or look like men.

They're just people trying to get on with their life and to make someone who has been through the pain and trauma of feeling like they were born in the wrong body and transition (which must be HARD physically and mentally because they DO get verbal abuse and stares I am sure) I'm sure that must be harder than spending 20 seconds brushing past someone in the loo as you wash your hands and wondering if they were actually born male....

Lucky you that you don't care. Perhaps you understand that others do care and that they should have their needs met.

And yes, the ruling will allow organisations to declare that their spaces are single sex and will exclude people who are not of that sex category.

Am I in the minority of "cis" women who don't give a damn whether a trans woman uses the same toilet???? Or changing room for that matter.

What am I supposed to be worried about exactly? Because they're technically XY that they're gonna be looking over the top as i take a pee because they're so desperate to do that they've decided to identify as a woman???? They're gonna sexually assault me just because they lack a uterus? Hardly likely. Felt more threatened by some of the dodgy (presumably "cis") woman I've seen in toilets over the years to be honest!!!

Makes no difference to me whatsoever whether a person who looks and sounds like a female was born with a womb or has xx chromosomes. I probably wouldn't even know so why would I care??

Would I want a trans woman to venture in to a male toilet to make people with xx chromosomes feel more comfortable? Absolutely not that would be awful. Probably far more likely to suffer abuse etc...

I'm hoping that the ruling doesn't come down to things like this...

But having a male body is more than just having a penis. Every cell in their body is male. You seem to be focusing on penises when this is not even the body part that defines who is male and who is not male.

Actually LittlerCharlotte, I believe that if an organisation wishes to state that their toilets are single sex using exceptions under the EA, then yes, it will impact toilet usuage.