To tell you how schools changed within 15-10 years

@ByBoldOP
The current system doesn’t work. I agree with you. That’s the point I was trying to make. Talking about personalised curriculums when we can’t afford pencils in massive classes shows how far away from being achieved it is.

But what we have now is too many children not receiving an education, too many children being failed. Too many children out of education because schools/ LA can't meet needs.

Every child is entitled to an education. It is not right that too many children are being denied that human right.

There has to be a move to change from what we have currently (a failing system) to something that will work for all. Personalized curriculum may be unworkable but so is the current system

Personalised curriculums clearly are ideal but will never work in a classroom of 30 with only one teacher trying their damnedest to meet everyone’s needs. We currently can’t afford pencils or paper in my class of 34 so what you describe is as far away from reality as possible.

There were never any fines and parents weren’t held accountable.
my partner left in year 7, never to return, with no repercussions on his parents.
My colleagues were the same.
They picked up a trade with a friend of the family.

The whole system needs an overhaul as it does not work.
A class of 30 and 1 over stressed teacher isn't working. The curriculum isn't working.

Education needs to be overhauled and made for for purpose so that it does work.

@ByBoldOP

So how are you suggesting this approach works in a normal class of 30+?

We definitely had a TA in my 90s primary school. The one in our class, who stayed with us from reception through to year 3, mostly worked with a boy who had learning difficulties and occasional difficulty with behaviour (I don't remember being afraid of him but he would get easily upset) but she was also available to help with other things. I remember because her name was Mrs. Crisp and she never became impatient with children asking her what flavour crisp she was today

You don't get it. Learning Shakespeare because you have to has little meaning. Being exposed to every opportunity means that some children will choose to explore shakes they will learn be ause they are self motivated. The individual approach to learning means we can explore our interests in a natural way. We learn far more when it interests us and when we drive the learning from an internal goal.
Being taught history in general terms a is great. An overview of key historical events. Then allowing children to explore aspects of history that they are interested in. Who decides that WW2 should be learnt at x age over the endless history someone may wish to explore.

In learning about one area of history they are using literacy to read, the our developing research skills, maths skills, critical thinking skills. This is much more valuable than memorizing set history facts that will be in an exam at 16
And for a child not interested in history (at age y) pushing them to have to learn it is likely to result in behaviour issues or put child of learning full stop. But by allowing that child to explore there own interests and by giving them seeds of ideas that can grow and they may circle right back to history. A child who loves gaming may be inspired to research the history of gaming - this may leed to interest into what was also different for children living in the time of Atari consoles or it may spark interest in building their own game

Too many children are left with a belief that they are not good enough because they can't pass a specific skill set at a set age, they are given the idea that only academic skills matter when we know society needs a mixture of skill, knowledge and ability. Imagine a world when everyone is amazing at maths but no one can do anything else.

And yes my experience as a primary teacher has formed my opinion on all this. SO much of what they learn at primary school is absolutely useless and mind numbing.

My experience as a home educator has also formed my opinion on this. When you step back from the system we were all brought up in, you see how ineffective it really is. When you see how many kids are coming out of school you have to wonder what it is that is causing this situation.

What do you mean? Nobody in living memory could leave school in year 7. The school leaving age hasn't been 11/12 since 1899! Or are you talking about another country?

Do you think that’s what I’m saying? Kick out Shakespeare as it’s not as entertaining?

You brought Shakespeare into this discussion. My point was and is that memorisation of large amounts of information for a test paper is outdated and irrelevant. Some of what is taught today is valuable and useful. I’m not saying kick out the whole lot. But overall it’s outdated and due to technological advances has lost its relevance.

As a teacher, do you think the curriculum is right for the 21st century and the way the world has changed? For today’s kids?

🤦‍♀️

Maybe they are trying to tell you what I’m also trying to tell you

They are saying that Shakespeare is difficult and not as entertaining as watching endless TikTok videos, therefore not worth their time.

Is that what you are also trying to tell me?

It's interesting that you want them to spend time learning to apply knowledge that they don't have because you don't value learning stuff and critically thinking about things they don't know anything about.

And you say you are an ex teacher but you don't see the value of exposing kids to Shakespeare?

Interesting that you say I’m making the same point as many school children. Maybe they are trying to tell you what I’m also trying to tell you. That information is at our fingertips whether you like it or not and there no longer is a need to memorise lots of information. Spending all your time learning the old fashioned way also means there is no time to devote to higher order skills such as critical thinking, problem solving, data analysis, application of knowledge and actually learning the skills to analyse the data that is online. As you pointed out that is a crucial skill for navigating the online world and one which kids don’t have.

Also we’re educating kids on what WE deem to be of value and importance. We are dictating to them what they should learn. There’s nothing wrong with Shakespeare if this is of interest but force feeding it removes kids own internal purpose and their own natural passions. It robs them of the right to follow their own interests and passion.

Yes basic numeracy and literacy is important as well as some basic scientific facts and say historical facts etc but we need to reimagine education for the world we live in now.

School doesn't 'prioritise' rote learning at all. Sometimes it needs to use it MORE. Particularly for things like times tables, number bonds, sight words, letter recognition and so on.

You're making the same point that has been made infinite times by multiple schoolchildren 'why should I learn Shakespeare when I'm never going to use it in real life?'

Knowledge isn't just valuable for its utilitarian value. We are not simply training people to do jobs. We are educating them because being educated is a good thing. Knowing things is good, even in the Information Age. In fact probably more importantly in the Information Age.

Totally missing the point…

And kids know this. They know that information is at their fingertips. They know that the skills they’re going to need in the world of work are changing

No no no, kids still need to learn stuff! There's an awful lot of shite at their fingertips...

What is often lost from this conversation is that school for the masses was started in the late 1900s as a response to the Industrial Revolution to provide them with some basic literacy and numeracy skills. Yet it hasn’t changed enough since then. Despite some curriculum changes over the years, some tweaks to styles of teaching and learning, more inclusion, more accountability and academic pressure/exam preparation and some awareness of mental health issues, really not enough has changed and it hasn’t kept pace with modern life.

The curriculum has outdated itself and not kept pace with the Information Age we live in. It still, all these decades later, prioritises rote learning and memorisation. The skills and knowledge needed for the 21st century are totally different to the ones needed in the past. Even in the quite recent past! Add to this high stakes assessment and lack of accountability for young people, it’s the perfect storm. (Not downplaying the importance of proper funding here and the stress teachers are under with accountability etc, just pointing out how the curriculum is outdated).

And kids know this. They know that information is at their fingertips. They know that the skills they’re going to need in the world of work are changing, they know that unless they want to go into a very academic career that they need more than what school can give them. School just simply hasn’t kept pace with the rest of the world.

I would also add from personal experience that kids do better in a mixed age environment, with less academic pressure, with a less competitive environment, more outdoor time, more play, more physical activity, more connection with their family and parents, less time spent with peers (and online!) in an environment that breeds conflict and bullying ie school.

I home educate my DC and am an ex teacher and I see the huge difference between kids not in school and kids in school. Their happiness AND their skills. To be clear I am not saying home education is the right thing for everyone (just as school is not right for everyone). It is more nuanced conversation than that.

We did have parents evening even in the 90s.

Despite all the ‘data’ that is supposedly collected now, none of this has been shared with me about my DC. At parents evening we just get the general ‘they’re doing really well’ etc.

I also can’t remember much bad behaviour in primary but there was definitely bad behaviour in secondary school. Thankfully PowerPoint wasn’t a thing when I was at school. Even when I started Uni some lecturers used overhead projectors.

I left primary school in 1993..so even longer ago than 2000 but yes TAs and LSAs were really not a thing. I think parents in general were much more hands off and life in general was way less child centric. Kids were just left to get on with life.

My dad never went to a single school event in my entire time at school. It was all my mum's domain and she didn't get involved much either as I was a pretty self motivated student. She swears she used to read to / with me but I don't remember it. There was far less bloody homework as well. Imo homework at KS1 really is utterly pointless except maybe the reading and tbh Biff and Chip can absolutely do one as they are so dull!

I left school in 2000 so a relatively long time ago. I went to a bog standard primary school with a class size of 30 and I honestly can't remember any bad behaviour in the class. There was a single teacher with no TAs as they weren't a thing back then. Parents didn't get involved in school at all and I don't think we even had parent teacher consultations.

Interesting-I started teaching in the late 90s and we definitely had parents evening twice a year, plus an open day in the summer-though not all parents turned up. Most classes had a TA-mornings only maybe for Y5/6 for literacy/numeracy hours.

There were children with 'behaviour' issues but they often didn't last long-if they were disruptive/hurt other children/hurt teachers, heads had the authority to exclude. There were places at prus without needing a statement, and if they did need one-the process was much quicker (with far more EPs-when it was only a Masters qualification!).

I left school in 2000 so a relatively long time ago. I went to a bog standard primary school with a class size of 30 and I honestly can't remember any bad behaviour in the class. There was a single teacher with no TAs as they weren't a thing back then. Parents didn't get involved in school at all and I don't think we even had parent teacher consultations. Parents got a report once a year and that was that. The teacher's word was law and nobody would have ever crossed them. From there I went to grammar school and it was more of the same. Teachers had real authority and most of them were able to control the class through sheer force of will and personality.

My daughter is now at the local prep school. She's in a small class and there are two children with SEN who have a TA to help them. I'm happy enough with how she is getting on at the minute and it's a good supportive school environment. There has been a turnover of teachers recently as older staff retire and there is a perception that the new younger teachers aren't as dedicated as the older "lifers" were but I don't know if that's true or not as I'm not in class.

What I am really dreading is the move to secondary school. The school she will hopefully be attending is all girls and has a reputation for academic excellence but pastoral care may not be as good as it could be.

I guess that I should at least be grateful that they are qualified teachers (although, having seen the standard of many of the students coming through, not exactly great ones!)

That’s exactly it @noblegiraffe. I know that the school is actively trying to manage out expensive older teachers like the excellent Year 5 one (who is leaving at the end of the year) to replace them with cheap, malleable ECTs. It’s incredibly depressing - so much skill and knowledge being lost.