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Original poster

To tell you how schools changed within 15-10 years

267 replies

HerNeighbourTotoro · 17/04/2025 09:50

I have been a teacher (on off, contracts and lots of supply) for almost 15 years now with some other work in between. If you have a child going through the system now and no older kids, you would not know how different things were even a few years ago.
15 years ago I did my PGCE in a fantastic school, I sadly missed out on the job they had at the end of that year and moved to a different location.

The staffroom was vibrant, lots of people always working, talking, exchanging ideas, they had a core team of teachers who were in charge of teaching and learning and each specialised in a different area, and were happy to pop in and observe or be observed. So many things were just amazing. They were also able to offer both more academic and vocational subjets.The department I worked in was wonderfuly resourced and they had a budget to buy into a few subscriptions offering students additional learning opportunities, they did trips, clubs, there were cross curricular days where departments collaborated to do projects. A dream place to work.

Over the years I worked in a few different schools and each year I have been noticing a change for worse, especially if I had a break from teaching/supply.

As it happens, last year we moved back closer to town with my PGCE school and an opportunity to do supply came up. No one I remember works there anymore, which was a shame, but what was really striking to me is how many things got lost in between. The staff rotation is however huge, and some departments have failed to recruit teachers for the vacancies and have either long term or daily supply to cover for the shortage (bear in mind when I applied, there were 50 applications for the job I ended up not getting and it was a norm to have over 30 applications in most schools in the area, and a lot more for shortage subject).

My subject lost a technician who was vital and it massively increased the workload. The department is half the size (as are many others). The classes are much bigger and some have 33-34 students. They run far fewer trips because a) the cost for the school to book suply is too big b) the workload increased so much that there is little time to organise these c) they lost office staff who used to help with the admin and now the team is smaller and can't help anymore.

The Language department used to have 3 language assistants (one for each language hey offered)- they now only offer one language and have no language assistants. The amount of subjects the school offers is much smaller and there apparently have been talks of closing down their 6th form.

All of the TAs are now mostly inexperienced agency staff that come and go and the SEN team is probably half of what it used to be as well. I have not seen a TA in any of my classes so far despite quite a few students desperately needing support.
The staffroom looks like a graveyard. Most people spend their lunches in their classrooms, eating as they prepare/mark. Forget about things like replacing damaged textbooks or other resources, so many people have to bring in their own pens and glues they buy in bulk because there is no budget.

I won't even mention the behaviour, 'teaching' a class of 30 or 30+ instead of 26 feels more like controlling chaos. There used to be a behaviour team supporting teachers, but now this is also gone because the school could not afford keeping 3-4 support staff on the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for children who are getting such different experience compared to before, with a small choice of subjects, supervised by supply teachers (I won't say taught) in the absence of teachers the school didn't manage to recruit, with few resources and few extracurricural opportunities.

For the record, the school is in a relatively well of area, I can tell you I have seen much worse elsewhere. But it is such a shame to see what was once a thriving school community in such a sorry state. All as the government is saying how supposedly schools are getting so much more money than at any given point in the past.

OP posts:
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5
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 19/04/2025 10:14

And lessons were often dreary. Reading out chunks of text, taking notes off the board, even being encouraged to get pupils to do dictation. Constant word searches, no group work, lots of listening and repeating….

Oh no - not dictation! Dictation and reading aloud are both parts of the brand new MFL GCSE exam. They are both excellent exercises actually, and always have been. Incidentally, one of the things that has gone wrong with the education has been training students to expect to be constantly entertained, and to behave poorly if they are not. Learning is not always fun, especially in a subject you don't like. Fun activities are more fun if they are sporadic. Constant gamifying of learning just encourages extrinsic rather than instrinsic reward.

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 19/04/2025 10:07

Cismyfatarse · 17/04/2025 10:00

I have been teaching for 34 years now. Things have changed but very much for the better in many ways. Pupils are listened to and their views considered and, while it takes up a lot of time, so are parents. We understand SEN so much better and, yes, it is under-resourced, but we account for learning needs. Discipline is more purposeful and less reactive and we consider all sides, including using restorative justice. We are aware of things like systemic racism, disablism, misogyny etc and build combating them into our course and our discussions, Texts are much wider (English teacher) and discussions are freer. Sadly, exam specifications still require a lot of teaching to the test, but pupils experience success and the curriculum is more tailored to different needs.

Things are not perfect. But a child now has a far better chance of being seen and heard now than ever before.

Not perfect?! I've been a teacher for 30 years and I think the majority of things have got worse, not better. To take just one of your examples, 'being more aware of misogyny' doesn't seem to have had any positive effect, judging by the number of rapes and sexual assaults in schools and the way many male students speak to and about girls and female teachers.

Cismyfatarse · 19/04/2025 10:07

ThriveAT · 19/04/2025 09:37

Seen and heard by whom exactly? The teachers who are leaving in droves?

Show quote history

By adults. As opposed to mistreated. My how we laughed on my first placement (in a ‘bog standard comp’ in a leafy county) when a boy on work experience (who shouted out a lot but loved machinery) was sent on work experience in a garage and was found by a visiting teacher, having spent the morning in a bin where he had been put. No judgement of the garage staff just, good on them.

And lessons were often dreary. Reading out chunks of text, taking notes off the board, even being encouraged to get pupils to do dictation. Constant word searches, no group work, lots of listening and repeating….

I am certainly not arguing that all is rosy - far from it - but in some ways education is very much better than it was 35 years ago when I started teaching.

Almahart · 19/04/2025 10:02

It really worries me that people think that you don't need to acquire any knowledge at school because it's all a click away on the internet. It's crucial that you have some context with which you can assess what you are reading imo.

ByBoldOP · 19/04/2025 09:41

noblegiraffe · 19/04/2025 09:08

"Memorising large amounts of information" = learning stuff. You seem to object to kids learning stuff because they can look it up. It is exactly the 'why should I learn my times tables when I have a calculator?' argument. It's because if you know your times tables then you can quickly complete basic calculations without having to reach for a calculator. But also knowing your times tables creates a whole sense about number that makes understanding other areas of maths much easier. And the same goes for other bits of knowledge. It is far easier for me to debate the impact of Tory education policy if I know about Michael Gove being education secretary and the vast swathes of policy changes he brought in instead of having to google a list every time I want to talk about it. Knowing that his key advisor in this period was Dominic Cummings then means I can make links to Gove's actions during the Brexit campaign, and then I can follow that through to Boris Johnson's disastrous time as Prime Minister. If you know things you can make links between various areas of knowledge. If you are constantly having to look things up, however at your fingertips that information is, the threads are lost.

I brought Shakespeare into this conversation because you said the curriculum was outdated and because Shakespeare wrote his works hundreds of years ago. But apparently it's fine to study his plays? So what do you mean by outdated?

Show quote history

Maths is skills that can and are transferrable.
Number sense like number bonds and timetables is beneficial. However, some children have an natural maths ability and for others maths is really confusing.
I know one child who started school with a strong maths knowledge. Because of how schools work children are who just get maths are held back and bored by the repetitive maths teaching. Right at the other end of the spectrum is the children who can't keep up with the speed maths is taught. Who need time to process the basics. A child can not do multiplication and division unless they understand number value and addition / subtraction. But they will.be say in lessons expected to learn that topic regardless.

children can explore and self direct their learning and do far better this way. We need to allow children to learn at the speed and direction that suits them best. We need the right support to scaffold learning for those who are struggling to enable them to make progress too.

There are too many children leaving school/education at 16 / 18 who still don't have numeracy and / or literacy at a functional level. If the system worked every child would have functional skills as a minimum but it isn't working because they don't

ThriveAT · 19/04/2025 09:39

lavenderlou · 17/04/2025 15:36

I'm a primary teacher but my DC are in secondary school. The worst thing has been the huge cuts in support staff since a rather dubious report came out under the coalition/Tory government which claimed that having TAs makes barely any difference to children's learning. Academy chains and local authorities leapt on this as a chance to save money. Now we have higher than ever levels of SEND in schools and less support than ever. TAs were also invaluable for pastoral support. Teachers don't always have the opportunity when responsible for 30+ children to take a bit of time with the anxious child who needs a but of reassurance, or the child with ADHD who needs a 5 minute run around.

My own autistic DC has ended up barely able to attend her secondary school due to severe anxiety, which could probably have been managed in the early stages if there were sufficient pastoral staff to support children like her.

I absolutely remember this dubious report about how useless TAs were. I was a brilliant TA and knew things were headed downhill from then on.

ThriveAT · 19/04/2025 09:37

Cismyfatarse · 17/04/2025 10:00

I have been teaching for 34 years now. Things have changed but very much for the better in many ways. Pupils are listened to and their views considered and, while it takes up a lot of time, so are parents. We understand SEN so much better and, yes, it is under-resourced, but we account for learning needs. Discipline is more purposeful and less reactive and we consider all sides, including using restorative justice. We are aware of things like systemic racism, disablism, misogyny etc and build combating them into our course and our discussions, Texts are much wider (English teacher) and discussions are freer. Sadly, exam specifications still require a lot of teaching to the test, but pupils experience success and the curriculum is more tailored to different needs.

Things are not perfect. But a child now has a far better chance of being seen and heard now than ever before.

Seen and heard by whom exactly? The teachers who are leaving in droves?

noblegiraffe · 19/04/2025 09:08

picturethispatsy · 18/04/2025 15:20

Do you think that’s what I’m saying? Kick out Shakespeare as it’s not as entertaining?

You brought Shakespeare into this discussion. My point was and is that memorisation of large amounts of information for a test paper is outdated and irrelevant. Some of what is taught today is valuable and useful. I’m not saying kick out the whole lot. But overall it’s outdated and due to technological advances has lost its relevance.

As a teacher, do you think the curriculum is right for the 21st century and the way the world has changed? For today’s kids?

Show quote history

"Memorising large amounts of information" = learning stuff. You seem to object to kids learning stuff because they can look it up. It is exactly the 'why should I learn my times tables when I have a calculator?' argument. It's because if you know your times tables then you can quickly complete basic calculations without having to reach for a calculator. But also knowing your times tables creates a whole sense about number that makes understanding other areas of maths much easier. And the same goes for other bits of knowledge. It is far easier for me to debate the impact of Tory education policy if I know about Michael Gove being education secretary and the vast swathes of policy changes he brought in instead of having to google a list every time I want to talk about it. Knowing that his key advisor in this period was Dominic Cummings then means I can make links to Gove's actions during the Brexit campaign, and then I can follow that through to Boris Johnson's disastrous time as Prime Minister. If you know things you can make links between various areas of knowledge. If you are constantly having to look things up, however at your fingertips that information is, the threads are lost.

I brought Shakespeare into this conversation because you said the curriculum was outdated and because Shakespeare wrote his works hundreds of years ago. But apparently it's fine to study his plays? So what do you mean by outdated?

J3nnyFromTheBlock · 19/04/2025 08:37

HerNeighbourTotoro · 17/04/2025 09:50

I have been a teacher (on off, contracts and lots of supply) for almost 15 years now with some other work in between. If you have a child going through the system now and no older kids, you would not know how different things were even a few years ago.
15 years ago I did my PGCE in a fantastic school, I sadly missed out on the job they had at the end of that year and moved to a different location.

The staffroom was vibrant, lots of people always working, talking, exchanging ideas, they had a core team of teachers who were in charge of teaching and learning and each specialised in a different area, and were happy to pop in and observe or be observed. So many things were just amazing. They were also able to offer both more academic and vocational subjets.The department I worked in was wonderfuly resourced and they had a budget to buy into a few subscriptions offering students additional learning opportunities, they did trips, clubs, there were cross curricular days where departments collaborated to do projects. A dream place to work.

Over the years I worked in a few different schools and each year I have been noticing a change for worse, especially if I had a break from teaching/supply.

As it happens, last year we moved back closer to town with my PGCE school and an opportunity to do supply came up. No one I remember works there anymore, which was a shame, but what was really striking to me is how many things got lost in between. The staff rotation is however huge, and some departments have failed to recruit teachers for the vacancies and have either long term or daily supply to cover for the shortage (bear in mind when I applied, there were 50 applications for the job I ended up not getting and it was a norm to have over 30 applications in most schools in the area, and a lot more for shortage subject).

My subject lost a technician who was vital and it massively increased the workload. The department is half the size (as are many others). The classes are much bigger and some have 33-34 students. They run far fewer trips because a) the cost for the school to book suply is too big b) the workload increased so much that there is little time to organise these c) they lost office staff who used to help with the admin and now the team is smaller and can't help anymore.

The Language department used to have 3 language assistants (one for each language hey offered)- they now only offer one language and have no language assistants. The amount of subjects the school offers is much smaller and there apparently have been talks of closing down their 6th form.

All of the TAs are now mostly inexperienced agency staff that come and go and the SEN team is probably half of what it used to be as well. I have not seen a TA in any of my classes so far despite quite a few students desperately needing support.
The staffroom looks like a graveyard. Most people spend their lunches in their classrooms, eating as they prepare/mark. Forget about things like replacing damaged textbooks or other resources, so many people have to bring in their own pens and glues they buy in bulk because there is no budget.

I won't even mention the behaviour, 'teaching' a class of 30 or 30+ instead of 26 feels more like controlling chaos. There used to be a behaviour team supporting teachers, but now this is also gone because the school could not afford keeping 3-4 support staff on the team.

I genuinely feel sorry for children who are getting such different experience compared to before, with a small choice of subjects, supervised by supply teachers (I won't say taught) in the absence of teachers the school didn't manage to recruit, with few resources and few extracurricural opportunities.

For the record, the school is in a relatively well of area, I can tell you I have seen much worse elsewhere. But it is such a shame to see what was once a thriving school community in such a sorry state. All as the government is saying how supposedly schools are getting so much more money than at any given point in the past.

This just sounds like terrible management.

converseandjeans · 19/04/2025 01:14

onlyconnect · 18/04/2025 16:49

Gove’s curriculum changes have got a lot to answer for. I struggle to get my son to go to school because he finds it so boring

Gove has caused a lot of the issues we have in schools. It’s upsetting to see he’s getting handed a peerage.

Stegochops · 18/04/2025 22:03

butterdish93 · 18/04/2025 21:42

@Stegochops
I’ve mainly been cover TA or behaviour mentor. So the main, usual class teacher would be present.
complete chaos for permanent teachers, children throwing tables about as standard. Pastoral/behaviour management team popping their heads through doors and witnessing it and not batting an eyelid as though it’s standard, everyday occurrence.
this stuff definitely happened 15 years ago when I was in school, but it would have been a big deal. A child would be put in isolation, or excluded externally, meeting with parents etc. there’s not the same repercussions now because the staff simply don’t have the time to deal with every incident as it’s literally several times a lesson.

That sounds awful. Is that all ability sets where you’d expect behaviour like that?

I'm genuinely interested. When I speak to teenagers they seem to think they’re being put into isolation for things like wearing the wrong coloured socks so to think tables are being chucked around classrooms seems baffling.

butterdish93 · 18/04/2025 21:42

@Stegochops
I’ve mainly been cover TA or behaviour mentor. So the main, usual class teacher would be present.
complete chaos for permanent teachers, children throwing tables about as standard. Pastoral/behaviour management team popping their heads through doors and witnessing it and not batting an eyelid as though it’s standard, everyday occurrence.
this stuff definitely happened 15 years ago when I was in school, but it would have been a big deal. A child would be put in isolation, or excluded externally, meeting with parents etc. there’s not the same repercussions now because the staff simply don’t have the time to deal with every incident as it’s literally several times a lesson.

Stegochops · 18/04/2025 20:31

butterdish93 · 18/04/2025 18:50

Agree agree agree.

Ive been one of the cover supervisors you describe. So I’ve been a fly on the wall on lots of secondary schools. Absolutely dire. Wether they are rated outstanding or needs improvement - they are all dire. No one believes me when I tell them. If it’s like this when my kids are high school age, then I will home school them. No way would I send them into that environment everyday

Behaviour was always pretty bad with supply teachers when I was at secondary school. Cover sessions I imagine show behaviour at its worst. In what way is it so awful compared to when you were at school? Scared to send my kids into this environment!

Needlenardlenoo · 18/04/2025 20:02

I think we must focus on funding (among other things) because the physical school estate is falling apart (since Building Schools for the Future was cancelled in 2010) and the government keeps adding pay rises, NI rises and pension contribution rises that are fully or partially unfunded, plus LAs are in trouble meaning they're having to top slice the main school budget for SEND.

Plus the birth rate peaked in 2012-13 and school funding is allocated per head.

Money's certainly not the whole problem but it is a problem.

BillyWind · 18/04/2025 19:51

I was very pleased to see and hear LGBT issues, kids, appropriate language used in schools when I returned in.2015 after 10 years out of education.

When I was at school lesbian was a very dirty word and there was no visibility or discussion about any issues. Teachers certainly didn't challenge homophonic behaviour so it was rife.
Schools are much more inclusive and it would have made a big difference to me if I had felt like I wasn't a freak.in school for being gay.

NoBots · 18/04/2025 19:42

It is far more important to have high quality teachers and better behaved classes than to only focus on class sizes. A discussion on how parents can help school will be more constructive than focus on funding.

NoBots · 18/04/2025 19:37

picturethispatsy · 18/04/2025 14:45

Interesting that you say I’m making the same point as many school children. Maybe they are trying to tell you what I’m also trying to tell you. That information is at our fingertips whether you like it or not and there no longer is a need to memorise lots of information. Spending all your time learning the old fashioned way also means there is no time to devote to higher order skills such as critical thinking, problem solving, data analysis, application of knowledge and actually learning the skills to analyse the data that is online. As you pointed out that is a crucial skill for navigating the online world and one which kids don’t have.

Also we’re educating kids on what WE deem to be of value and importance. We are dictating to them what they should learn. There’s nothing wrong with Shakespeare if this is of interest but force feeding it removes kids own internal purpose and their own natural passions. It robs them of the right to follow their own interests and passion.

Yes basic numeracy and literacy is important as well as some basic scientific facts and say historical facts etc but we need to reimagine education for the world we live in now.

Show quote history

I don’t think there is any fundamental differences between the two sided arguments. One cannot function well without the other. Without understanding of how things work, application is limited. Theories etc can be dry and boring to kids, however, it is part of process of training the young minds to have the ability to think deeper, to quest and query, to apply.

butterdish93 · 18/04/2025 18:50

Agree agree agree.

Ive been one of the cover supervisors you describe. So I’ve been a fly on the wall on lots of secondary schools. Absolutely dire. Wether they are rated outstanding or needs improvement - they are all dire. No one believes me when I tell them. If it’s like this when my kids are high school age, then I will home school them. No way would I send them into that environment everyday

FiveTreeHill · 18/04/2025 18:36

Were you teaching at a private school? Or some magical school?

I was at school 15 years ago and we had class sizes of 30+, no textbooks, definitely no language assistants, no TAs in any of my classes. Very few trips and definitely no musical instruments! I had multiple teachers off with stress, for 2 of my GCSEs I just had a string of supply teachers. Also lots of social media bullying, Mass sending of nudes round the school etc. Sexting, selling drugs on premises, fighting etc all happened. No behaviour assistants or any real policies for bad behaviour. And my school was a pretty middle class tame school

I'm sure education has changed massively in the last 15 years, and many of those changes have not been for the better but your description of schooling 15yrs ago sounds like a fantasy!

Needlenardlenoo · 18/04/2025 17:18

The lack of unskilled jobs sits behind a lot of the school-as-containment issues, doesn't it?

Needlenardlenoo · 18/04/2025 17:17

@TiredalwaystiredI can think of a few things?
Look closely at the content of what your children are learning and ask questions; supplement where needed (BBC Bitesize is great)
Support teaching staff where there is conflict (don't automatically take your child's side without investigating)
Become a school governor
Write to your MP
Volunteer with school age children (Guides, Scouts, church groups, DofE, reading schemes, mentoring schemes, sports clubs etc etc).
Share experiences on here (I've learnt so much about the SEN system from helpful Mumsnetters and was also given a helping hand years ago when I was training as a teacher).

I mean training as a teacher would perhaps be an extreme response (and take too long to make any material changes for one's own children) but the possibility is there?

Needlenardlenoo · 18/04/2025 17:07

The information may be at our fingertips but the ability to understand it and do something with it is not (plus the information isn't always often trustworthy or reliable).

The Gove reforms certainly took aspects of the curriculum in a different direction (and the primary curriculum needs reform) but we don't have a rote learning curriculum in secondary in the large part. Yes there's lots of content in e.g. English lit, History, Science etc but the exam marks are for what you DO with it: apply it, analyse it, quote it to support an argument etc.

Redfloralduvet · 18/04/2025 17:01

Witchtower · 18/04/2025 16:02

There were never any fines and parents weren’t held accountable.
my partner left in year 7, never to return, with no repercussions on his parents.
My colleagues were the same.
They picked up a trade with a friend of the family.

Show quote history

I know people like this too.

Ex boss left at 14 to start nursing training.
DF barely attended secondary school and failed all exams despite being highly intelligent and self-educated later in life. Worked in the family business, raced dogs and dicked around, before taking on first casual labouring work upon leaving school then working for a national company in his 20s for the rest of his career.
Friend did 3 weeks of secondary school then refused to go back. 2yrs later ended up in a special school where almost zero actual school work was done but was interested in mechanical things and received informal training from the maintenance guys.
Even among my peers lots bunked off school regularly or pulled a sicky and nothing ever came of it. No punishment and parents didn't even know it happened.
Some left before GCSEs if they'd got their NI number through and knew they had little hope of passing the exams, getting jobs in shops or warehouses.

Now all those unsuited to it are forced to stay in school, to everyone's detriment including their own.

onlyconnect · 18/04/2025 16:49

Gove’s curriculum changes have got a lot to answer for. I struggle to get my son to go to school because he finds it so boring

Tiredalwaystired · 18/04/2025 16:41

I’m trying to work out what your reasons are for posting this OP. We dont have a choice about educating our children and only a very small percentage will ever home school. We all only ever know the school systems we go through so we don’t have a comparison to go by. We all just live within the school systems of our own time(including our own education).

Aside from making anxious parents even more anxious what do you want to achieve with this post?