CIS

*they problem

I find it easy to be bugged by a wide range of things. This is merely one of them.

Also on the list: people who seem to think they have the right to tel us others they SHOULDN'T be 'bugged' by specific things because THEY aren't.

It’s just a turn of phrase. I’m not saying anyone is literally born in the wrong body. However, some people have the subjective experience of being a different gender from their actual biological sex, and therefore feel as though they are in the wrong body. That’s why they might take steps to make their body look physically more like the gender they feel.

If, like most people, you DON’T feel that way (i.e. you do not feel a different gender from your biological sex) then you could be described as cis. However, you don’t have to use the term if it offends you.

Hopefully we will see less of this now, now that the courts have determined that trans women are not women, that leaves us with the term women. Trans women should not be referred to as women.

I don’t think anything is inherently offensive.

I also think this discussion is being a little pedantic with semantics.

If you don’t like the term cis woman, just say biological woman. They mean the same thing in modern lingo. I usually say woman, or biological woman if some clarification is needed.

In the rare case that somebody has female external genitalia, but male DNA, leading them to be recorded female at birth, I think the situation is nuanced. I’m not sure what the correct term for those people would be. I think we need to be a little bit flexible for truly intersex people like that.

But no one can conceivably be born in the ‘wrong body’. There is no way that this can be true.

That’s not explaining what gender is, or what gender identity is though.

No it doesn’t. Only if you believe in gender identity theory and the post modern ‘if you say you are something then you are’.

many of us don’t fit into sex stereotypes. Not conforming to how you perceive society views your sex doesn’t make you a different gender. It makes you a non conforming person within your biological sex category.

CIS is a slur.

If anyone wants to add a prefix to “woman” for me I’m going to demand that it’s the word “real”.

Well, I feel as though I am female. I am also biologically a woman. I definitely have no sense that I’m in the wrong body.

Some people definitely have the subjective feeling that they are male or masculine. Even though they are biologically a woman. It’s a real phenomenon. That’s why they might transition. Doesn’t make them biologically male, but it might make them feel better about themselves day to day.

No. Cis woman has been used to describe male people who were incorrectly recorded as being female at birth.

It is a term that has been taken from
it original meaning in science and incorrectly applied to humans. It was never fit for purpose.

Not only that it forces people who don’t believe in gender identity theory into category that they don’t belong. Labelling people ‘cis’ is not neutral. It is categorising everyone as believing in gender identities. That is inherently offensive

And in order to be a trans woman, you have to be a man first and foremost.

Anyway the world has gone completely insane.

Yeah, obviously whether you feel masculine or feminine has no bearing on your actual biological sex. Everyone knows that (I think?????)

Just, the fact is, some people do feel a different gender from their biological sex. They just do. It makes sense that there would be a term for that phenomenon.

@Bogginsthe3rd

It is in no way MY classification. I think the whole thing is absolute bollocks and that there’s two sexes, (plus a tiny weeny minority of people with DSDs who may be unclear on their biological sex until puberty).

But I get the feeling from your other posts that your fake disingenuous nonsense takes are designed to fuel some frustrated screenshottable MN quotes.

How does one feel the same gender? Define it.

No, thank you. How could I possibly be when I don’t have a gender ID.

Please stop forcing other people to believe in your philosophical beliefs.

Gender identity is only philosophical belief and only a small group of people have that belief. Calling people ‘cis’ forces that belief onto people who don’t believe in it.

What other group in society gets to do that?

No it doesn’t? Cis just means you feel the same gender as your biological sex. So no biological men will ever be grouped with cis women.

It’s not a term I really use, though I guess I might say “cis women” to clarify as it’s quicker than saying “biological women”. Normally, I’d just say “women”.

Ok. So let’s turn this around.

How the fuck then can a male person know what being a ‘woman’ feels like? Your statements are really not coherent when they are scrutinised.

No male person can ever experience life as a woman. They can only ever experience life as a male person who believes they are a woman.

Even when they 'act' like a woman, they are acting as they believe a 'woman' should act. Which is fucking misogynistic!

Even if they are treated 'as a woman' by some people, they are being treated as a 'male who presents as a woman and believes they are a woman'. Because their every reaction is based on that. Not on them being female in any way.
Even when they have extreme body modifications, it is to be their own concept of what a female looks like to them. It is not what a female is.

How can it be?

The only way a person can experience life as a woman, is to have a female body, formed around the production of large gametes, even if it doesn't produce those and to navigate their life based on the decisions they and society makes that revolve around them having that body.

A male can conceptualise what it might be like to be a female, but that is all it ever is - their concept of being female.

They may do it because they don't feel they fit into how they conceptualise how a male person interacts with the world (ie. their own stereotypes around being male) or they do it because they want to be seen as a female (using their own stereotypes of how a female navigates life). It really doesn't matter though. Their motivation is irrelevant to the outcome. And I consider the outcome can only be described as misogyny.

Which is that they will always be just a male who believes they are something they are objectively not.

How can the material reality be any different? This is why someone's gender is only based on someone's philosophical belief. And philosophical beliefs are fine for people to hold, but not one person in the UK has to comply with another's philosophical belief.

The logic cannot be any different than that I am afraid.

Its not just a descriptor its a classification which moves some male humans into a grouping with the majority of female humans

It changes the meaning of woman from female human to mean some male humans and most female humans.

In legal terms if women means some males and most but not all females how would womens rights not to be discriminated against be benchmarked?

Eg how should society organise groupings for employment protections for activities around growing new humans which require both female and male input?

We don't have to justify or clarify what we are , we are just Women. If others need to clarify their non Woman status with trans, that's a them problem.

How you feel is irrelevant to whether you are a woman or a man. These are category words defined by reference to objective criteria, not subjective feelings.

Gender is a load of regressive made up bollocks. It is what generations of real feminists have been fighting against. Why on earth would I or any sane woman identify myself by reference to it?

Gives me the rage. CIS. Oh purlease. Only CIS I know is accounts , reporting to HMRC our subcontractors deductions. I do know what a woman is.

Yep