CIS

I just refuse to use the word cis if at all possible. Or any of the TRA lingo. I have lost track of how many gender identities there are. I'm too old and ND to pander to all this crap . I don't even bother with preferred pronouns. I just use they/them or their name. They can't be offended by that. Not my circus not my monkeys.

Intersex people don't stop women being women and I don't think it's fair to drag them into discussions that feature made up ideologies.

Outside of public sector, I suspect my work place is more typical than either, and CIS and transgender have never once come up in training or policy.

Access to women-only spaces (and men-only spaces) is and always has been based on sex.

I wouldn’t classify them! A qualified doctor would have - as male or female. I don’t think there are any VSDs which are considered as ‘neither’, and certainly not as ‘both’.

So if every cell is coded in your body to a non XX or non XY chromosomal pattern, what would you say ?

You need to do some more research. People with disorders of sexual development are still either male or female. There is no third sex. Your sex is literally coded in every cell in your body, even if your genitals did not develop normally.

Well because biologically they may be neither male or female and not have male or female genitalia necessarily. So I wondered how you would classify them ?

Yes I can understand that. My feeling is that a man who was born male but now identifies as behind a woman is called a trans man rather than just a man or cis man, no?

People with variations of sexual development are also male or female. Say to them with regard to what?

Yanbu I find it offensive. There are women and there are men that's it. Some men present as how they perceive the stereotype of a woman to be and vice versa. Most of us just plod along perhaps conforming to gender stereotypes to some degree, perhaps not.

The terms transwoman/transman have contributed a lot to the confusion surrounding this issue, which I suspect was the point of them. If men who 'identify as women' were referred to as such by the media I'm sure this whole issue would have been resolved a lot sooner.

@Bogginsthe3rd one of the things I really struggle with in this discussion is why anyone thinks it’s reasonable at all that:

A man who feel like he is a woman should be called a ‘Woman’
A woman who actually is a woman should be called a ‘cis-woman’ so as to not offend the man who wants to be called a woman.

Why do women get forced into a sub-category of their own sex class, in order to facilitate a man feeling better about his identity? And why would any women support and go along with that?

Out of interest what about people who are intersex at birth? What would you say to them ?

Yanbu.

You are a woman, no other description is necessary. It makes life much simpler. 😊

Yep. You’re one or the other. Male or female. Don’t denigrate my being a woman with bullshit made up terms or some how manage to make actual women lesser because men can’t even accept their male privilege but some of them just have to force their encroaching onto “being female” when they’re not, they never fucking were and they never fucking will be! It’s not a case of welcome to the lower half we’ve always been considered as. It’s bulldozing their bullshit all over everything we have ever fought for and had to endure. Fuck that!

I think then the would simply say that you were born a female and you are a woman because you feel that you are a woman. And probably only say this if that was offered up by yourself. It's more of a philosophical question of you being you. I think therefore I am.

I agree. It doesn't mean anything as women are women, we don't need an addition to show we are real women unless we may be confused in a conversation about a stuffed toy woman and, even then, then we'd use 'real' and not 'cis'.
When compared with men, we are clearly the other sex of the two available.
The whole concept of trans is a story that was allowed to go too far, follow the money and the predators to see who gains!

Just to check my thinking on this,

it would be bad if I were to presume to know the gender identity of a TW, TM or NB person right? At least that’s what the message seems to be.

But it’s OK for others to presume to know that I have a gender identity and to call me cis, even if I don’t like that and don’t feel like I actually do have a gender identity, I know I’m a woman because I’m female, not because I feel like one. I have no idea what ‘a woman’ feels like, I just know what I feel like.

Is my understanding of this logic vacuum correct? I can’t presume to know other peoples gender identity, but they can presume to know mine.

I hate it. Why can't they just call us women and Transwomen transwomen?

They don’t have to use it either.

Nope. And applying the term to women who reject it is against MN talk guidelines.

Quite. And I object being referred to this way.

It sounds like other people would call you a cis woman then. You don't have to use that term.

No, you’re just a woman.

Cis relates to gender identity and assumes that we all have one, when we don’t.

Absolutely this.

As Hadley Freeman said.... "women are women and transwomen are transwomen", which sums up the issue of terminology quite succinctly.

I'm wondering,..... what's the current ladies' lavatory setup at The Bridge and the RFH? Haven't been to either for a while.

I guess if you were born a woman and you are a woman you are a cis woman. It's a just a term which you don't have to use if you don't want.