CIS

sorry, responded after not reading your post correctly. I agree with you

I would definitely prefer it if everyone was free to use language which reflects their beliefs. So genderists are free to call me “cis”, Scientology devotees can call me thetan or whatever, and I can clearly refer to all men as men, including those men some people call “trans women”. Everybody’s happy, no?

Agreed!

I was having this conversation with someone when they told me I didn’t have to call myself Cis, but other people are entitled to use that term. I asked them if they would be happy if I callled a TW a man, but he was entitled to refer to himself as a TW. They still didn’t get it.

Ok. But if you think it’s ok to say what you just have, then it’s also ok to say to a TW, ‘It sounds like other people would call you a man then. You don’t have to use that term.’

If you do a poll within the general public, you'll find a lot of people have either never heard the term and/or have no clue to its meaning. Because its never really caught on, on account of it not being necessary for most of us to declare we are not trans. The first time I heard the term I asked what it meant, and I was told it was another word for 'real'. I guess it sounds less objectionable then, maybe.

Votes are pretty much in it’s looking fairly conclusive, still shocked there’s 7 percent who love women needing an extra descriptor to describe being a human woman.

You said no one here is going to decide the outcome and I agreed. Only the Supreme Court can do that. And it has. It agrees with JK Rowling.

@Bogginsthe3rd - why do you refuse to explain this particular phrase that you were fond of using earlier? Is it because you can't? (just like ever other single person who uses it)

Can we go back to innate feelings though. Pretty please?

I’m with you op. I absolutely detest the word Cis. I’m all for calling people or referring to them I a manner that they are comfortable, but don’t try to do the opposite to me and insist on calling me something I’m not comfortable with.

If you like we can just put it down to PP using the opposite phrase to the what she meant then 😂

That's nonsense.

No. You are over reaching yet again.

Can we go back to innate feelings though. Pretty please?

My point was that maybe subconsciously she did, and that this reflects an underlying truth that factors more than chromosomes may contribute to that person as an entity.

........but PP was essentially saying she was a woman because she was born female and raised that way

That is NOT what she meant at all.

I agree with you but the phrase "born and bred" really only does only refer to the one situation.

born and bred
idiom (also born and raised, born and brought up)

used to say that someone was born and grew up in a particular place, and usually that they are a typical example of someone who lives there:
He's a Parisian born and bred.
I was born and bred in the country and all I know is farming.
We were both born and raised here so the culture was in our blood.

Totally agree. Am hoping the ruling will put that term in the bin - but I suspect the TRAs will shout it even louder now as they know so many of us hate it.

We need to get some T-shirts printed with the slogan: 'Not cis. Just woman'.

Just been googling it and it can mean both definitions, so we are both correct. Bred is past tense of breed, which covers incubation, ie pregnancy.

Old English bredan "bring young to birth, carry," also "cherish, keep warm," from West Germanic brodjan (cognates: Old High German bruoten, German brüten "to brood, hatch"), from brod- "fetus, hatchling," from PIE bhreue- "burn, heat" (see brood (n.)). Original notion of the word was incubation, warming to hatch. Sense of "grow up, be reared" *

But @Bogginsthe3rd, please …..

That's not what "born and bred" refers to. It's an easy mistake of argument to pick up on, but PP was essentially saying she was a woman because she was born female and raised that way. She probably didn't overtly mean it that way, perhaps subconsciously she did, but it was a good demonstration of expressing an argument that is actually more akin to those she is apparently disagreeing with.

Bred in this context means breeding, ie a man and a woman making/breeding an offspring, ie nature.

It doesn't mean raising, as in nuture.

The, "and bred"

There is a bigger issue at play here. The ‘destabilisation of some societal values through the destabilisation of established science’ Quote @Helleofabore.

Consideration of this is far more important than anything @Bogginsthe3rd has to say!

Logically they're right, though. These threads are full of women defending their right to call a trans woman a man, and threads are full of comments about men in skirts, blue haired non binary people, etc etc. You can say this about people; you'd be very pissed off if Mumsnet suddenly said "you can't say this about people". You have the right to label people as you see fit, and they can say "yep that's me" or "nah I don't acknowledge it".

People can also label you cis, and you can say "yep that's me" or "no, I don't acknowledge it". They can still do it, though.

Where did you get the raised bit from?

So it wasn't just your sex at birth which made you a woman, it was how you were raised also. Got it 👊