NT people don’t exist

I also think some kids are just less suited to having to sit in school environments.

There is a famous ballerina who told the story of her mother taking her to a psychiatrist b cause she couldn't focus on school. He said take her out of school and get her to do something more active. She went to a ballet school and the rest is history. She could have been prescribed meds to fit into the existing education system, but luckily had another option

Our schools are not right for every child. That shouldn't mean we have to diagnose them and give them tablets. Our education system would be better being modified rather than trying to modify the kids. IMO

But they wouldn't have had you not had a diagnosis for them. Regardless of it's it's meds or therapy, it's recognising that there is a "thing" to be treated. The spiky profile someone posted upthread is v helpful. If someone is low scoring in all or most areas they may be somewhat limited but may not present with the issues that AuADHD does. It's the imbalance between traits that causes the issues, as I understand it.

That's great! It must be such a relief seeing him feeling better and able to focus more.

I just don't see why we can't support kids and adults with the difficulties they experience without the need for diagnoses. If a kid has trouble concentrating, is impulsive or hyperactive, a psychologist can support them by offering strategies to manage. No need to give them a label. If the kid or their parents want meds, i don't see why a doc couldn't prescribe something to help without the need for a diagnosis. It's a shame parents and kids have to wait years for a diagnosis when people could help with the symptoms straight away, and there isn't a need to diagnose everyone except.pwrhaps to keep the profession of psychiatry alive.

We all have different traits, different 'symptoms' (to use medical language) etc.. based on our different biologies and different life experiences. I get anxious due to trauma I experienced as a kid. I've chosen not to go down the meds route and just accept I am someone that gets anxious sometimes and I'm ok with it. But if I did want meds I would hate to think I'd have to be diagnosed with a medical condition called 'anxiety' in order to get them (I wouldn't because gps prescribed anxiety meds like smarties).

I don't really believe there is such a thing as neurotypical but that isn't the same as everyone being on the autistic spectrum.

The NHS provides therapies too for ADHD. Both have enabled my dc to focus longer than 15 mins and have helped with other debilitating symptoms.

I had to bite my tongue last week amongst a group of fellow teachers who trotted out the "we're all on the spectrum" . It wasn't the appropriate forum to get into it with her but it massively winds me up because it minimises the issues people have. When I was struggling to achieve a diagnosis for DS people said it thinking they were being kind, that's there nothing really wrong but they just didn't see all the behind the scenes issues. I teach teens. The vast majority are obviously NT, with a range of personalities and traits ranging from delightful to absolute twats. Those on the spectrum, with or without a diagnosis are immediately obvious, including my son but it still takes literally years to get anywhere through the official channels because of views like the OP who just want people to cope and be accepted but it's not just about that. DS reports feeling immediately calmer, less hectic and over emotional in his response to challenge. It has allowed him to manage the school environment (albeit a small, quiet v pastorally focused private one that I am in debt to keep him at). The ND kids there are there for the same reasons.
If the op is saying it's over diagnosed because people use ND to excuse poor behaviour, that would be one discussion with some possible merit, but to argue it's not really a thing and we're all just different is naive and unhelpful.

Well the meds have transformed his ability to go to school (at all) and focus. His attendance went from 73% to 100% in one week. If it's not a real thing how are meds helping? If it doesn't have a label or name how can they classify it for treatment.

Collectively and to the extent of having a massively adverse impact on life of course they’re not normal and only a tiny fraction of the population does have such a collection of traits that have such an adverse impact on life. You could pick apart any condition or disease if you choose and infer it’s a label and normal going by such a ridiculous theory.

FWIW the person who (apparently) coined the term "neurodiverse" meant it to include everyone. As in, we all all diverse. Which I think is the sort of thinking the OP is getting at - that we should recognise and accept all the diversity.

The term has come to mean "people with autism/adhd/dyslexia/etc".

Would link an article but too wiped to search for it.

It was clear to me, because she substituted "neurotypical" for "autistic" in a sentence that is typical of what people say about autistic people.

But then, I am autistic so the detail leapt out at me...

Wonder if it's actually an example of something that seems so straightforward and obvious but neurotypical people don't get? Hmm.

We are !!!!

Well it depends really. If you subscribe to NT and ND categorisation, if there is any of the above behaviour in the NT category you couldn't say that's definitively part of being ND, could you? In which case, it would be seen as 'normal' insofar as it's not exclusively happening due to ND. And as far as I know you can be suicidal, depressed and have poor focus without having a ND diagnosis.

I'd also say we don't need those categories in order to prevent these effects. If we recognised that individuals have different strengths and weaknesses and accepted and nurtured that it would probably help.

In some ways categorising as NT/ND could produce these reactions. In my experiences it's all about 'correcting' ND behaviours and traits to fit into an NT world (as proscribed by those who categorise as such) I don't think that actually represents the reality of human beings very well. The focus is negative and pejorative and I'd prefer education, and society at large, to be more accepting of difference. I think that would help in terms of enabling individuals able to self-actualise.

Your comment about finding potential suicidal ideation in my child funny is unnecessarily unpleasant, but I’ll let it go because it sounds like you’re in a particularly dark spot at the moment.

I truly am sorry you’re struggling with your child. The resources just aren’t there and what little there is ends up spread too thinly. Take care of yourself.

Before being so rude and patronising maybe you need to check as to who I was replying to.

You may find it funny when your child tries to take their life I don’t.Having seen my child suffer as much as I have I think I can despair as much as I like.

Slow hand clap MN, what a great supportive thread for parents of ND children. We know where to come.

Okay, clearly you’re missing my point, so I’ll make it really clear for you:

I am autistic with a diagnosis. I have an autistic child with a diagnosis. I know autistic struggle, I live it every day but I try to keep a sense of humour about it instead of sinking into a pit of despair that I could — realistically — lose my kid to suicide in the future.

My original comment was a direct mirror of the bullshit usually levelled at autistic people, but turned around for neurotypical people. You didn’t get it, that’s fine, humour is subjective and I assume you’re the one that reported the comment. Are we done?

I don’t think suicide attempts, clinical depression, chronic ocd, severe eating disorders , anxiety to the extent you can’t go in shops or use public transport, extreme sensory difficulties, inability to form relationships, repetitive behaviours that are so severe they impact life, not being able to focus on anything for more than 15 minutes, severe self harm, dangerous compulsive behaviours….are normal differences do you.

I think you have misread what I've written. I didn't say my diagnosis was worthy. I had a diagnosis now I believe diagnosing neurodiversity is meaningless. The term neurodiversity is a misnomer.

If you and your children find it helpful, that's fine for you. I just believe pathologising normal difference is unhelpful.

Removing the post is a beautiful demonstration of ableism anyway, wouldn’t you agree? NT people can dismiss the lived experience of ND people all day long on this site and it’s rarely challenged or removed. Flip it around and it’s removed within 10 minutes.

Funny old world, innit.

Yes, people can have difficulties. No, it does not mean you have autism.

I am not great at maths or science - it doesn't mean I am autistic.

I don't love being in social situations and prefer the company of those I know well over those I don't - that still does not make me autistic.

People can have things that autistic people struggle with too - it doesn't mean they are autistic.

People with autism have a completely different wiring of their brain - we do not all have a bit of autism.

It wasn't clear at all and clearly not to others either as the post has been removed

Okay, go back and reread my posts, but add a teaspoon or three of irony. Do you see how I satirised what neurotypical people say about neurodivergent people? How I took the tropes and flipped them on their head for comedic value?

You’re just goading. How lovely.

Clearly, you do not if you think it improves job prospects. In the UK, the stats sit at around 30 percent of autistic people are in employment.

It’s frankly appalling. Clearly zero monitoring tonight.