Page 8 | To think if your child ends up violent or criminal, it is partly your fault?

TheTaupeMoose · 2025-04-15T20:48:13+00:00

Parenting ^does ^matter, sorry.

JHound · 15/04/2025 22:27

Depends how old they are. Who we are is a mix of nurture and nature. It’s not black and white.

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:26

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:17

How do you allow for intent? What about capability?What about harmful and dangerous when mentally unwell? What’s your provision then.
Don’t keep telling us problems Tell me what you’ll do, how you’ll implement and fund it.

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As I’ve said, I agree that intent, capability and mh are hugely important in understanding harmful or dangerous behaviour. Of course those factors matter - that’s exactly why this is a complex issue, not a one size fits all scenario.

But I think we should be able to talk about parenting as one contributing factor - not the only one - without needing to come with a full intervention model, budget, and implementation plan. Like I said to you before… raising a social concern isn’t the same as claiming to be a policymaker. Not every conversation about patterns or influence needs to end with legislation - sometimes it just starts with being honest about uncomfortable truths.

OP posts:

Peony1897 · 15/04/2025 22:26

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:23

You are apportioning blame
Ok what is your solution. What are you proposing? What’s the intervention
Enough of the bus stop wisdom, what are you suggesting happens.

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I think parenting now is so bad the government wouldn’t be blamed if they stepped in with some kind of heavy handed social services who could confiscate tablets and vapes etc

I actually dread the future when I see some of the kids at DD primary school

I feel like a tenth will be in prison, a tenth will need full time carers, a tenth will need part time carers and a quarter will be unemployed

Peony1897 · 15/04/2025 22:24

Yes and no.

We can’t pretend there isn’t a huge link between a chaotic upbringing and a propensity to go on and commit crime. Because there really is.

Bit equally sometimes I think the Mumsnet idea of what ‘chaotic’ means is a bit off - not having a bedroom each, raising your voice at your kids, letting them walk to school alone at 10 and so on.

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:23

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:21

That’s not what I said at all. I’ve never claimed parents are entirely to blame and I’ve acknowledged several times that life is complex, with factors like poverty, trauma, inequality, and individual personality all playing a role.

But I also don’t think we should be so afraid of sounding “judgy” that we completely ignore the role parenting can play in shaping behaviour, especially long-term. It’s not about finger pointing, as I’ve said, it’s about being honest that home life and upbringing matter. That doesn’t mean every parent of a troubled child failed. But it does mean parenting should be part of the conversation, not off-limits.

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You are apportioning blame
Ok what is your solution. What are you proposing? What’s the intervention
Enough of the bus stop wisdom, what are you suggesting happens.

MrsWinslowsSoothingSyrup · 15/04/2025 22:23

Parents do have the opportunity to teach/model to their children how to deal with adversity without resorting to violence or crime, how to deal with coercive, difficult or cruel people, how to avoid bad situations and ultimately how to treat others with care and consideration.

So yes, I agree OP, parents can have a significant impact on how a child grows up to handle a tough world, where to seek support and how to make choices that don't harm themselves or others.

Semana · 15/04/2025 22:22

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 21:58

Fair point, most people would agree that parenting matters in general. But when it comes to serious outcomes, like a child becoming violent or criminal, there’s often a reluctance to suggest how they were raised might have played a role. People rush to blame “society,” peer pressure, or schools but rarely talk honestly about home life unless it’s extremely obvious. I just think we should be able to say that parenting can be a contributing factor without it being seen as heartless or oversimplified.

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I don’t think anyone is preventing you from saying parenting might be a contributing factor, though. Say it as much as you like.

The only situation where I’ve closely observed for many years the parenting of a criminal doesn’t help, though. The criminal is my BIL (two prison terms for armed robbery), his parents my meek, well-meaning, deeply ordinary, law-abiding PILs, and their four other children (1) my kind, public-spirited, hardworking SIL, his twin (2) my other dull, decent, hardworking family man BIL, (3) my lazy, clever SIL, and (4) my lovely, high-achieving DH.

All law-abiding, other than a (failed) attempt by the clever, lazy SIL to get planning permission to convert an outbuilding by faking evidence it had previously been inhabited.

It broke my PILs hearts when he was convicted, and (they don’t live in the UK, but he lived and was convicted there) took on extra shifts to fund going to see him monthly in prison.

I can’t offer any explanations — he is the joint eldest and DH the baby, so he was already in prison when I first started going out with DH, and after a brief attempt at rapprochement when he was released and got married, he’s now cut off the entire family. I gather he’s on benefits, has very poor MH and has a lot of health problems, but it’s more than 20 years since I saw him.

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:21

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:13

What are you on about,it’s not about finger pointing? You’ve unreservedly just blamed parents for their shortcomings in raising reprobates

That’s not what I said at all. I’ve never claimed parents are entirely to blame and I’ve acknowledged several times that life is complex, with factors like poverty, trauma, inequality, and individual personality all playing a role.

But I also don’t think we should be so afraid of sounding “judgy” that we completely ignore the role parenting can play in shaping behaviour, especially long-term. It’s not about finger pointing, as I’ve said, it’s about being honest that home life and upbringing matter. That doesn’t mean every parent of a troubled child failed. But it does mean parenting should be part of the conversation, not off-limits.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:20

Quitelikeit · 15/04/2025 22:19

@Zone2NorthLondon

uou can’t surely live in zone 2 with such views?

op I hear you and agree it’s nature and nurture

look up maternal deprivation/attachment theory

Yup, zone 2. What’s the issue.?

Quitelikeit · 15/04/2025 22:19

@Zone2NorthLondon

uou can’t surely live in zone 2 with such views?

op I hear you and agree it’s nature and nurture

look up maternal deprivation/attachment theory

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:17

MuchTooTired · 15/04/2025 22:08

If you looked at the parenting of the offender, would you also then look at the siblings of the offender and how they turned out?

Absolutely and that’s exactly why I wouldn’t say parenting is the only factor, just a significant one. Siblings growing up in the same home can have very different experiences depending on temperament, birth order, emotional attention, trauma, even who they’re most bonded to.

But if we’re looking at causes, it makes sense to look at all parts of the environment - including parenting style, consistency, modelling of behaviour and how conflict or emotion were handled. The fact that one sibling turned out differently doesn’t mean parenting had no impact - just that it’s part of a more complex picture.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:17

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:13

Fair point on the wording - “criminal” in the legal sense does mean convicted. But I think most people reading the post would understand I’m referring to serious antisocial or violent behaviour, whether or not someone has technically been charged.

The larger point still stands: when a person displays harmful, dangerous, or criminal behaviour (legally or not), it’s valid to ask what role upbringing played - alongside everything else.

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How do you allow for intent? What about capability?What about harmful and dangerous when mentally unwell? What’s your provision then.
Don’t keep telling us problems Tell me what you’ll do, how you’ll implement and fund it.

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:13

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:02

Also,criminal, is only attained when person is convicted What about folk never charged,caught?

Fair point on the wording - “criminal” in the legal sense does mean convicted. But I think most people reading the post would understand I’m referring to serious antisocial or violent behaviour, whether or not someone has technically been charged.

The larger point still stands: when a person displays harmful, dangerous, or criminal behaviour (legally or not), it’s valid to ask what role upbringing played - alongside everything else.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:13

What are you on about,it’s not about finger pointing? You’ve unreservedly just blamed parents for their shortcomings in raising reprobates

TheAmusedQuail · 15/04/2025 22:13

Both my sister and I had awful upbringings. Abuse, neglect, violence. We've both done really well in life. Independently of each other, due to the age difference but also being separated due to family rupture. And yet educationally and financially, we're both good.

It definitely isn't anything to do with having a stable or supportive family unit/upbringing. It can only be in our genes.

NewsdeskJC · 15/04/2025 22:11

Bollocks to that
You cannot possibly think that is true in all cases.

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:10

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 21:58

Ok,you’ve identified what you consider the problem.what you going to do about it?
whats your intervention? How do you measure its efficacy?

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I don’t think pointing out that parenting can be a contributing factor in a child’s later behaviour means I need to have a fully costed intervention ready. The point is that in conversations about serious behavioural outcomes - like violence or criminal activity - parenting is often treated as off-limits or too “blamey” to mention. But acknowledging its influence is the first step in looking at solutions holistically, alongside trauma, poverty and social systems.

I’m not claiming to be a policymaker - I’m saying we shouldn’t be afraid to include parenting in the conversation just because it’s uncomfortable.

OP posts:

SolielMoonSky · 15/04/2025 22:09

People often say “I blame the parents” in those situations. It is over simplified and it’s a pointless unproductive comment most of the time. But you are free to say it. You can’t make everyone agree with you.

MuchTooTired · 15/04/2025 22:08

If you looked at the parenting of the offender, would you also then look at the siblings of the offender and how they turned out?

2chocolateoranges · 15/04/2025 22:07

I don’t agree, parenting can be blamed , I have a sibling who was brought up in the same house as me, with the same rules and same parenting, that sibling has been arrested many time for , we will call it petty crime and been to court due to it.

I have never been in trouble with police , never plan to be and can follow rules whereas my sibling can’t.

Saddm · 15/04/2025 22:07

Ime not by deliberate choices but bad choices...
My dc committed crimes I absolutely do blame myself for...
We both have to live with the choices we made..

Original poster

TheTaupeMoose · 15/04/2025 22:06

Tallyrand · 15/04/2025 21:54

My 4YO bites and scratches me if I say no.

How long am I being sent in for?

Hopefully just a short stint… maybe time off for good parenting behaviour?

Honestly though, I think most people know the difference between normal early childhood behaviour (toddlers test boundaries, of course they do!) and the kind of consistent, long-term issues that can lead to bigger problems later on. My post wasn’t aimed at people dealing with the chaos of a 4yo having a meltdown - more about situations where harmful behaviour is repeated, ignored, or even modelled at home over time.

OP posts:

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:06

Ok,so what’s your solution
Hows it implemented?
Hows it funded?
Hows it staffed?
what sanctions (if any) do you apply to parents?

WoodyOwl · 15/04/2025 22:05

I think this is very simplistic. You are ignoring the influence of school, classmates, neighbours, peers, tv/films, video games, mass media, social media, poverty, job prospects, social mobility, access to education/sports/hobbies....

Zone2NorthLondon · 15/04/2025 22:04

Pre sentencing reports etc are exactly where upbringing, childhood ,mitigating factors are considered. We actively ask about childhood and potential triggers