To think if your child ends up violent or criminal, it is partly your fault?

Absolutely. I was a bereaved child myself and I always told friends of mine whose partners died NOT to read the literature on outcomes for bereaved children because it most likely did not apply to their families.

You're ignorant and have no idea how complex these situations can be. Be careful what you say, you may have to eat your words one day.

Absolutely. We live in a society and I think school can be responsible for a lot.

That's right. But read up on how important the parent child relationship and attachment is. Someone who has been loved and has a secure attachment isn't as likely to go off the rails as someone who hasnt had that. It gives resilience and inner security.

so,you have absolutely no notion what you think is required?what you’d like govt to do?
You see the issue?,you raise the issue? Then…..what?Is that it

Criminal is an interesting one.

if you count stuff like speeding tickets and points on your license then more of the population are criminal then not criminal.

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-for-great-britain-2021/vehicle-speed-compliance-statistics-for-great-britain-2021

In the case of these jobs, like the ones who killed the oap in the park and similar, then yes.
It's useless parenting, no discipline and usually no father or good role.model.

Re the Bulger killers, always thought the parents should have been in the dock too.
How can it have nothing to do with you when your 10 year Olds do that.

Also think the education system had a part to play.
They killed James when they should have been at school.
Their truanting should have been flagged up.
I hope the parents had any remaining younger children removed from their care.

Most offenders are caught because they're not smart enough to be successful criminals. Lower socionomic groups tend not to be overburdened with big brains so put the two together and there's your reason. There are just as many criminals from more affluent backgrounds, they just tend to be better at covering their tracks.

@Semana it is bizarre that you think you know what your PiL were like as parents, what the family dynamics were and how your BiL grew up. You have NO idea. You weren't their child and didn't grow up in this family. BiL sounds like the scapegoat and PiL are on a pedestal.

Not all childhood trauma is caused by parents! Parents die and get sick, those are traumas. Children can be abused by people who aren’t their parents, that’s trauma.

@TheTaupeMoose whilst I partially agree in theory, it’s impossible really to delve in to the lives of the whole family, and an unfair intrusion to those who haven’t committed the crime.

I find it a really tricky one if I’m honest. Blaming parents (based on the assumption that they did genuinely do their best) for their adult child committing a crime when times are changing so fast seems wrong. But I can understand parents who didn’t give a shit being given a proportion of the ‘blame’.

Would you make allowances for acceptable parenting behaviour of the time, or would we judge against today’s standards?

Statistically yes parenting impacts behaviour in the future - obviously where there are psychopath traits and behaviours due to , for example, head injuries - then no. So there will always be examples where the criminality is nothing to do with the parenting in the large parenting is a major indicator

Plenty of trauma can be caused by external influences in childhood, despite loving, interested and boundaried parents. Your comment is naively narrow @Perimenoanti

I can't even count the red flags in your post.

I think you’re purposefully provocative and yes bus stop wisdom to elicit a response
Your posts aren’t considered and don’t suggest knowledge of literature and research

@TheTaupeMoose what do you think trauma is if not childhood trauma caused by parents?

Famous last words, OP. Be careful what you say as it can come to bite you later.

Of course parenting is important but it's not everything. I can't make my older children do anything, stop them doing anything they decide on, and they might have different values to me.

If one of my children commits a criminal act, it's got nothing to do with me and is directly against everything I will have taught them.

Actually, one did try drugs several times. I suppose that's a criminal act. I've never tried drugs, neither has their father or siblings. I educated them well about why they shouldn't and they did it anyway. I take no responsibility for their stupid choice. They were trying to fit in with a group, something else I've also taught them not to try to do and taught them how to stand up against peer pressure. If they'd been arrested, their choice, their responsibility. Nothing to do with me.

The problem with how you've titled this thread, @TheTaupeMoose , is you end up with idiotic comments like a PP It’s always the parents fault

There's a vast range of cause and effect of criminality or anti-social behaviour, including as others have pointed out genetics, parenting, peer pressure, the society you live in and the availability of jobs. Your posts indicate more nuance, but the title is irritatingly inviting of very stupid comments.

A lot of it has totally to do with upbringing. I wouldn't blame poverty as such. More the parent child relationship. I don't understand how this is controversial. A child that feels loved and has a secure attachment probably won't become a drug addict or murderer.

Parents never want to accept their role because it requires introspection and some work on oneself.

What about the mental health crisis. It's not new. Just more talked about. Once I processed my childhood trauma (from my parents) my depression and panic attacks disappeared. I totally blame my parents for my struggles as they used me as an object to project their shit onto and this caused me great harm. Took 20 years, hard work and lots of money to undo.

Well, it would be a lot easier to engage in a sensible, balanced discussion along th elines of this, your most recent post, if you hadn't opened with a clickbaity, goady post. Pity, it's an interesting discussion and one I'd usually engage with.

You're an issue raiser? That’s easy position to maintain you externalise and complain without having to think about intervention etc. You want to raise issues but have no suggestions . You don’t want to be diverted by policy you must want to raise issues and apportion blame

Either this is some kind of AI bot or you're the same person who posted the McDonalds neglect thread. The style is exactly the same.

It's a widely known factor, that's why there's a lot of emphasis on parenting and services such as HV, education, parenting courses and SS that get involved with families.

People strangely point out that siblings from the same parents can have different outcomes without somehow recognising that children have individual needs and require different things throughout their childhood in terms of parenting. One child with ADHD requires different input from a NT sibling, and those with issues that don't get the correct support can lead to issues that snowball, and some go on to commit crimes due to the lack of self-regulation and it's compounding impacts over time. Parenting is very nuanced so talking about 'we had the same yet brother did XYZ' just because you both lived in the same home with the same basic schedule doesn't mean each child got what they needed and had the same opportunities. It doesn't mean the parenting was the same and therefore bares no responsibility.