To think if your child ends up violent or criminal, it is partly your fault?

The ones from troubled backgrounds with poor parental modelling - were their crimes those of chaos? Shoplifting, burglary, drugs, booze rather than sheer sadism?

Well, I can promise you that if your child does something and you were to come and sit down to talk to me about it in any context, I won't be starting from a place of judgement. I will have a blank slate in my mind and just listen, and start to learn about your situation and all the complexities of it. Within every situation are an array of individuals, all with their own complexities. Yes, there may be parent contributing factors (none are perfect or get it all right or never miss anything) but I won't assume it is the driving force.

What a bizarre way to speak about children.

This is a discussion forum, FFS, not a policy-creating think tank

I'm sorry I don't think you know what trauma work entails. Getting stuck in the past is exactly the language these people use. They also like to say 'leave the past in the past'. You are just playing with words a little bit that don't change the meaning and achieve nothing.

You have once again been dismissive. Why shouldn't abuse survivors feel like victims? It's not a bad thing to validate ones own experience. You can be a victim and still reclaim your voice. The fact that you prefer not to go to the past just tells me you prefer to shut it away, it's not actually part of you and you just avoid. It's not superior to any other way of dealing with the past although I know you'd like to think you are.

I was a teacher long enough to see how some of the kids I taught have turned out. In most cases the kids from troubled families where there were no boundaries and the parents made excuses and blamed everyone but themselves have ended up committing crimes. In many cases their parents, siblings and other family members have also been in trouble. In saying that, the three I’ve known to have committed the worst crimes came from caring families and their siblings have turned out fine so far. No mental illness involved in any of these examples.

It is impossible and it's impossible to know that your oppositional toddler, tantrummy tween then sulky graffiti writing teenager who drinks cider in the park has something much more serious going on than being a pita.

I would guess he was 'difficult' (impossible) from birth. What are the parents of an ADULT violent paranoid schizophrenic who isn't taking their medication supposed to do. Other than probably hide from them because they're number one on the shit list.

Agree. Conscious and unconscious bias favour the middle classes. Economic stability is a positive factor in potential outcomes

That's a tragedy and I don't know what caused it. You have no way of knowing how each child's relationship with the parents was and what role each child played.

How are people on this thread pretending siblings are treated the same? It's impossible.

Coming from a stable economic position helps with many things that are simply not available to offenders from more deprived backgrounds. Access to a better defence, more letters of support to put before the judge, a good suit and tie. I believe it makes a vast difference.

I work in this area. You acknowledge the past, how it shapes things now, you work to address it and put healthier things in place, then you think of how you can move forward in a stronger place. The future is the only thing you can change.

I refuse to get stuck in my own traumatic past because I refuse to be a victim. Living in it would only hold me back and blaming stops me taking responsibility for what I can do to move forward in strength.

'Getting stuck in the past' isn't the language of guilty parents. That is usually more like, "It never happened." "It wasn't that bad." "Well, you were a difficult kid." "It was your fault."

Sitting around licking your wounds forever and feeling sorry for yourself will only hold you back and stop you living fully. Don't give them the power. Take it back.

I am going to keep the details vague for this.

A friend of ours was killed by her son - a violent, horrific and disturbing death. He is now in a secure location etc - won't go into more detail.

Highly complex background of neurodivergence/mental health/institutional failures/mental capacity/medical context. (I have ND background myself - no implications here, I am being very vague on purpose by generalising).

Her other adult child was recently graduated, starting adult life - both from the same supportive, loving family - extended network, community, outdoor life, good school, any other determining factor you would like to call on. Watching him talk in memory of his mum was devastating at her memorial service. Now both this person and their dad have had their family and their lives ripped apart.

I am appalled by even the merest suggestion anything to do with her parenting meant she was the cause of her own death.

Who are these people who don't judge parents of violent or criminal children?

Parents are judged more than any other demographic based upon their children's behaviour and conduct.
Parents are judged by everyone, and if the child is violent, the judgement is almost always negative, so I'm not sure where you are getting this idea from that parents of children who commit crimes and/or are violent aren't judged.
Who is too afraid to judge them?

Your belief that parents are not judged when their children are criminals and/or violent is not based in reality.

I have to assume you have never had a violent child or a child that has committed crimes, because if you had, you would probably be staggered at how much judgement there is, from so many different quarters.

I just wondered if there is anything else you wanted to call me or describe me as and what it is.

Look at Pablo Escobar mum

I've got a criminal sibling always indulged by DM and excuse for actions and then another atrocious family member again, upset so many people and never ever reprimanded by her parents.

That's some concerning language you use 'getting stuck in the past doesn't help anyone move forward'. It's the language 'guilty' parents often use.

I don't know if you are ready to hear it: working with the past means processing and accepting (not blaming) what went wrong, which unhealthy coping mechanism one might have developed (people pleasing, addiction, violence) and then find ways to undo step by step. It's extremely hard work and usually takes years. its a shame you have been so dismissive of it. But some people just aren't ready.

Don't agree.

One of my friends is a lovely guy, all his family are. His brother got involved with drugs in his teenage years, family tried everything to help, nothing worked, he committed sone horrific crimes and is now dead. All of his siblings couldn't be nicer people.

Another friend was raised by parents with addiction issues and criminal records, one significantly. He was absolutely determined to have a better life and does so.

I don't think it's as simple as bad parenting. Bad parenting does contribute in some cases but unfortunately even with the best parenting in the world, sometimes there are bad outcomes.

Oh I completely agree. Also I think repeat offending would be almost impossible without familial or at least financial support. The very act of getting from prison to the approved premises and getting the phone to work and managing it all on time is beyond lots of prisoners.

I could write a book probably. In basic, I just realise that there are many forces that shape a person, some people are just more resilient than others, personality comes into it, peers encountered, a whole society, genetics, neurodiversity (diagnosed and undiagnosed). I'm especially interested in epigenetics at this time. I'm not saying parents can't make a difference, I just won't assume that and sometimes things go good or bad in spite of the parents.

I also wonder if there's some disagreement on this thread because people have different types of crimes in mind. Are we talking about the most extreme crimes or are we talking about petty crimes among them?

@anon771 that must have been hell to grow up in. Well done for building a life that's so much better for you and your own children

As I said, that population isn't my area of expertise. Maybe different types of crimes predominate in different populations too?

That’s considerable resilience and drive to shape and change your future
You’re evidently v reflective