To think if your child ends up violent or criminal, it is partly your fault?

I agree that society and systems are usually the biggest contributing factor, this often influences parenting (poverty, deprivation, capability of parents, parents own experiences etc)

It does play a part in ‘some’ cases, but not all.

One common theme I find in most situations actually is loss, whether that’s relationship breakdown, absent parents, or death. There is rarely a person I work with where loss doesn’t feature in their life, and often not a direct result of parenting, parenting can often be very good alongside this.

most children who offend are teenagers, where actually the world outside their home (contextual safeguarding) plays a bigger part in their life than home.

not saying parenting isn’t relevant it is, but it’s definitely not always parenting or even always partly the parents fault.

Absolutely! Think of all the millions and millions in evaded taxes. So much more than the poorer end of the scale, benefit fraud. Yet one side of the same crime has a polished face.

Very interesting question! I suppose the entitled toffs use their accent and manners to manipulate the police. I would say the majority of police are working class conformers to perceived authority.

Did you see any examples of the children of 'good' backgrounds getting involved in chaotic 'petty' crime or did you find that type of crime was exclusively committed by children from troubled backgrounds? Did Ptolemy ever become a druggie burglar or was it always Ptyler?

The most incidious criminal behaviour in our society isn't from the children of these so called disfunctional families. The vast majority of their crime impacts on people in similar situations and has very limited impact on society as a whole. The crime that impacts the fabric of our society is committed by educated, professional people who have corrupted our institutions, hoarded wealth for the sake of it, manipulated legal process to protect their entitlements and privilege and managed to perpetuates an acceptance of dishonesty throughout generations. Why are we not debating why parents haven't stopped this in their children.
Did they not set boundaries for their children? What went wrong with their upbringing that they can act without moral compass if they can get away with it. This is much more interesting. We know why poverty and addiction leads to crime but what about the professional class and crime. What reasons do they have?

Kyle Clifford who murdered John Hunts wife and 2 daughters brother is also in prison serving a life sentence for the murder of a young man

In 2017, Clifford's brother, Bradley Clifford, was jailed for life for murdering a teenage who was 18 year old moped rider. He is serving 23 years .

2 men -brothers both in prison for murder

apparently the mum & dad are perfectly nice and normal people

how they cope with not one but both of there children in prison for murder I don’t know

@homemadebasilpesto
I taught secondary so these examples I’m thinking of are all late 20s/early 30s now. I only left teaching last summer and taught lots of younger siblings/cousins etc so have found out that way. Three of the cases have been high profile so I saw those on the news.

Thank you and I think that makes sense. If the ones from the more affluent backgrounds had committed the chaotic crimes their families are in a better position to lessen the outcome vastly. Also in certain sectors of society the 'petty' crimes are viewed as fairly run of the mill. Therefore the more affluent children will only end up in prison for crimes that can't be smoothed over.

In some cases 100% the parents lifestyle and parenting has played a part. Other times it hasn't. Some people have really loving families and then end up being junkies, doing crime ect. Some people are undiagnosed and havnt received the right support ect.

What ages though? Most mental illnesses don't develop until the late teens/early 20s, so outside the ages most teachers will see (unless you somehow knew the families or kept in touch).

Sometimes they are, depends on the crimes. At the moment an obvious one is the Manchester bombers, go for back and the Krays. But there are plenty who are leas publicised my house was broken into by brothers, the Police officers I dealt with did not find that unusual.

@Dogaredabomb
Mostly those crimes, yes but a few violent offences as well such as assault etc. The crimes of the more affluent ones are of the nature where they will be likely to be attacked in prison if you know what I mean! Generally people have been more shocked by their crimes but I’m not sure how much of that is their background and how much is the nature of the offences.

This.

Some families are very dysfunctional and any support or help I've seen has just enabled them further sadly.

You are projecting. Those are not my attributes. They are yours.

No. That is why how you raise children is really important.

And maybe one day you will look back and be able to say, "I was a victim, I'm not anymore." Then you will understand what I am saying and will probably also become a more compassionate and understanding person too. The hardness comes from self-protection, does it not? I learned to protect myself without the walls and being hard on other people.

I'm sorry for what you went through and I hope that you can heal well.

It doesn't work if they have aspd, you can't tell they have aspd rather than being appropriately boundary testing until it's too late.

What about all the crime committed by well educated professional people like tax evasion, or insurance fraud, or paying to get their children into schools or lying on applications about where they live, or employing home help below minimum wage, or business expenses that aren't, or letting sub standard housing and breaking housing laws, etc etc. Are these actions a product of their upbringing, or doesn't it matter because that's not real criminal behaviour like stealing cars and breaking into houses is.
I can understand poverty driving crime through desperation and marginalisation and that it could be a consequence of your environment and values installed during your upbringing. But middle class crime is fueled by self interest and greed which is beyond a basic need to survive. Those values are often installed by parents and the social groups and education systems they expose their children to. They just call it something different, usually being ambitious and being successful in life and doing the best for your children, but if you are dishonest on a school application and justify it as doing the best for your child then you are actually the same as a parent who accepts their child stealing to have something in their life.

Because you focus on symptoms. Focus on makeing your child feel safe from within, accept them, make them feel seen and heard give them a secure attachment. Then they might try that party drug but perhaps it won't become an escape.

You dont get it: I will always be a victim of my parents' abuse. Someone who got raped will not one day be 'no longer a victim of rape'. It's a weird suggestion. Being a victim doesn't mean everything else you said isn't possible. It's not black and white.

I hope you can give your younger self the compassion it deserves one day. It feels good to acknowledge ones own pain, that something has been unjust and then soothe yourself. It's a skill that serves you well in adulthood. Life is much more livable if you allow pain to exist.

I am not going to go into particular details about the family's background. I still maintain it is not in anyway "partly her fault" that she died at the hands of a son who they had, for so long, tried to help/get help/treatment/get the right structures and support for as his complex issues and conditions surfaced over the years.

Really?

Perhaps I'll try a different way.

If your child becomes an adult criminal obviously something has gone wrong.

How are you supposed to know that the following normal scenarios are indicators of a far more serious problem than being age appropriately defiant for some people

A toddler who always says no

A tween who is stormy and tantrummy

A teenager who drinks cider in the park and does graffiti

I hope one day you are ready to see yourself as no longer a victim. Even if you were back then, you don't have to be that for life. It's a great place to be when you've taken back your power.