To think the benefits system is humiliating, yet we blame people for not taking low-paid jobs?

He registered with an agency and put them down as his new employers to which he did two days work for them.

I don't think you can claim UC if you walk out of a job. I am free to be corrected though.

I have an ex who walked out of his job in December. He was on a lower wage and got UC, I never judged the UC as the lower pay was part of his job.
I did judge him though when he walked out and didn't seem to bothered because UC could just step in so he could take a few months off. His work wasn't stressful or difficult, he did have a bit of a fall out with the manager who did try so send him an olive branch. I don't think people should be encouraged to do this.

I find myself agreeing more with this kind of sentiment. Yes the benefits system isn’t exactly life affirming but when did we get to a point where grown adults are expected to never once have an adverse experience? No one can suck it up and accept that some things at “tough shit” anymore

"Many jobs don't even pay enough to be worth it".

THIS bit is the problem. The whole point of benefits was a helping hand to get back into work if you'd lost your job, NOT a lifestyle choice.

So those who CAN work, SHOULD work.

If you're over 21, working full time on the minimum wage is now £25,397 which is more than reasonable. That's a take home pay of over £1800. With two of you on minimum wage that's taking home £3600 a month.

@Penguinmouseexactly this

@ThatSassyWriter you've posted something that you feel is a problem or a dilemma for some people

What are your thoughts on how to solve it?

Being honest, I don't really agree that it's a problem. But I'm interested to know how you'd address it as you feel there is a problem there.

It doesn't matter whether people can make sense of the OP or not. It was always going to result in the predictable names and responses talking about people "leeching" and getting handouts.

@gattocattivo I do agree but there should never be a choice. Benefits should be there as your safety net, not because having a minimum wage job feels crap. There are plenty of days when going to work is boring or stressful, we have to do boring and stressful things as adults. Benefits shouldn’t exist to let people opt out of those things, they should be there to protect people when they can’t get a job/have lost one/can’t work for other reasons.

I didn’t read the OP as saying benefits are equivalent to working. The point is that if the differential between benefits (with add ons like social tariffs for energy, broadband, free prescriptions etc) and working in a min wage job is not very much, there can be little incentive to do those min wage jobs. A lot of min or low wage jobs are absolutely essential to the running of society. They may be mundane or unpleasant too. People need the incentive that if they’re giving up the best part of the day 5 days a week to do them, they’re going to feel significantly better off than if they were free to use those 37 or so hours a week as they chose.

Benefits are not the equivalent to NMW.
People on higher amounts of benefits are either disabled or have disabled children.
Someone who is job seeking gets about £100 per week to live on.

According to multiple posters on benefit threads, it’s perfectly possible to never work.

But the original post seemed to be arguing what’s the point of working at minimum wage when benefits are an equivalent. We should have a strong welfare state for those who need it, not for those who can’t be bothered to work and contribute to it.

It’s also true and worth remembering that many of those people getting up every morning and going to work, nursing, teaching, driving buses, serving customers, whatever, may well suffer with anxiety, lack of self belief, they may worry about appraisals and whether they’re up to the job (imposter syndrome is very common) A teacher friend tells
me that quite a large proportion of her colleagues are on anti depressants. It’s not the case that everyone who gets up and does the daily grind is feeling fine.

@Pickledpoppetpickle " if I could do it all again, I would put my children first, and I would sit on benefits for the duration. Might as well live it if I’m to be accused of it"

is that an option under the current system?

to the pp who asked about socialist friends

Maybe I should've said left-wing.

So historically, they have complained about a minimum wage being far too low, but they even they now think it's fine

I think there's an issue with the difference between the lowest paid people in an organisation and the highest paid people myself but that's very separate to this conversation.

Work versus benefits - 100% believe in the welfare state. I'm puzzled by this post because it implies that work should be more fulfilling or fun or something. The reality is it just isn't.

We work to get bills paid. That's the sum of it for many of us.

re the point about humiliation, no one has ever described it to me like that. I've known people who are really upset that they have to go and claim. But they've never said anything about the staff or feeling humiliated.

it's funny, I've always been under the impression that the Tories were awful with benefits but now, I'm not so sure.

@ThatSassyWriter if work is bad and benefits are bad what magic are you looking for?

I agree with a PP, employers should pay living wages not just NMW. The problem in the UK is the benefits system props up low pay and part time hours. If you work full time you should be able to afford a good standard of living without needing top ups, but that’s not the case for many.

You're really not making any sense. Claiming benefits is dehumanising, so people therefore choose to claim rather than to get a job? That’s bonkers.

And to be honest, it is perfectly reasonable to have to meet conditions and to have your claims checked if you are applying for benefits. I’m certainly not saying the system is perfect, but if you want charity you sometimes have to accept the conditions that come with that.

This kind of language is part of the problem. When you get a low paying job, you are given zero respect and language like leaching, scrounger, scum, lowlife, unambitious, stupid, lack of self respect, lack of work ethic….all heard by people who are lower earners and still need to claim UC. I was a single parent, full time teacher who tutored and exam marked for years. I was still entitled to tax credits for much of that time. I did my best, was never unambitious, stupid, or without self respect and my work ethic was as high as it possibly could have been. But I still heard stuff words like scrounger said loudly within my earshot.

My children are all grown up now - 2 in university, one on an apprenticeship but if I could do it all again, I would put my children first, and I would sit on benefits for the duration. Might as well live it if I’m to be accused of it.

Have a think about the language you use around decent, hardworking people who are claiming what they’re entitled to. And remember that we need people doing the shit jobs - doesn’t mean someone earning minimum wage is less of a person without dreams or ambitions than a higher earners. People working 40 plus hours a week do not deserve to hear others view them as just leaching scroungers. Many of us on long term benefits are doing the best with the cards we were dealt.

I do wonder if people forget that benefits are paid for by other people getting up in the morning and going to work which isn't always a happy and supportive experience. I've had friends on benefits who had to answer questions about where their partners lived. It was stressful for them. A lot of adult life is stressful though.

I'm sorry you feel that benefits can be dehumanizing but everyone needs to be a grown up about it and accept that they are receiving support from others labour. Not all taxes are paid by James Dyson or other multi-millionares, they also come from nurses, bus drivers, teachers, cleaners - people in difficult jobs who get up in the mornings and go to work.

I'm pleased we don't have people on the streets but work needs to be encouraged.

How many happy, well-adjusted people do any posters know who would willingly choose to live off benefits rather than take pride in being self supporting?

Most people want to be the best they can be. There’s a reason the long-term unemployed who fit the definition of ‘scrounger’ are like they are. Adverse childhood experiences are endemic in this group. They have no aspirations and even less belief that work could be better than a life on benefits. Challenges of working seem insurmountable (no qualifications, belief they can’t cope, worry they don’t posses the right knowledge, etc) even though their explanation will often be “well why should I work?” in defiance to those they deem judging them.

@Mrsbloggzagree

I agree that it is detrimental to society as a whole if people fall into destitution and so we need a welfare state which acts as of safety net and prevents people from falling into destitution.
But surely the welfare state should not provide a disincentive for people to work at all?

What does the minimum wage have to do with socialism?

Because it's not good for society to have a number of destitute people. The welfare state wasn't set up to be altruistic, it's pragmatic. We'd all be less safe if people couldn't claim subsistence level benefits.