To wonder why screens aren’t investigated as a cause of childhood behaviour issues?

There's a lot to discuss here, which I won't because I do have my own autistic kids and it's nearly my turn to watch them 😁

"But I simply don't believe that the huge rise in numbers of ND children can be attributed to better understanding of neuro diversity. If it were the case that in previous generations all these people were just walking around undiagnosed"

• Huge numbers of people in previous generations ARE walking around undiagnosed though (or getting very late diagnosis)! I think the fastest growing group of people getting diagnosed is middle aged women.
• I don't think it I'd better understanding alone, I think there are many, many reasons for increased rate of diagnosis, "better understanding" being a part of it. On another thread, a Paediatrician was explaining that there has also been a massive increase in obvious and severe learning disability in children as well as other neurodivergence. There's no way that can just be explained by better understanding / diagnostic criteria being broadened.

I used to work with children (although I am quite young so can't compare multi-generationally) and I genuinely don't think behaviour is getting worse: secondary schools were absolutely wild 20 years ago.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom completely agree with every word.

It's not a spurious correlation though, is it?

The research into the effects of screen use on child development is pretty damning. And I think we have all seen with our own eyes (particularly those who work with children) a general decline in children's behaviour and increased incidence of developmental delays which cannot be explained away by other factors.

I think it would be illogical to assume, without any real evidence, that screens are detrimental to NT children but beneficial to ND children.

And I do believe that many parents are now jumping on the neuro diversity bandwagon and self diagnosing their children because they'd rather stick a label on their child and blame their bad behaviour on something innate rather than acknowledge that their own parenting isn't up to scratch.

I'm not saying that is necessarily the case for people on this thread. But I simply don't believe that the huge rise in numbers of ND children can be attributed to better understanding of neuro diversity. If it were the case that in previous generations all these people were just walking around undiagnosed, I think we would be seeing vast improvements in people's ability to cope with everyday life now, as a result of increased diagnosis and treatment. And yet, that really doesn't seem to be the case. People labelled ND seem less able to cope with everyday life now than ever before. So are all these diagnoses genuine, and if they are, are they actually helping?

I have slightly strayed off the topic of screen use here, but seeing children have meltdowns in public, then being given an iPad which they stare mindlessly at for the next hour, only to have another meltdown the moment they are required to put the iPad down - and seeing the parent justify this on the grounds of neuro diversity - looks like an appalling vicious circle to me. Screens are addictive; they are deliberately designed that way. And when people use other things which are known to be addictive in order to regulate their emotions (tobacco, alcohol, painkillers, opiates, betting), it never ends well.

"We now know one causes the other" is not the same as "has been related to".

It is virtually impossible to prove a causal link.

Well I suppose what you’re essentially doing is laying some/all blame for diagnosable behaviours at the feet of the parents. I don’t know if you’re right or wrong, but it’s naive to think there isn’t going to be some pushback on that…

It is. Lots of us already torture ourselves about whether it was something we did as parents or not.

As someone said upthread, this is just a rehashing of the refrigerator mother theory.

Those that they're not talking about the REAL autism cases is also contributing to the stigma and shame.

It must be difficult to manage conditions like autism and then come and read things like this on top of it.

That's why I asked whether there's anything about what they are currently doing on holiday which could be replicated at home. I know it's not the same environment but sometimes being in a different environment prompts you to rethink your day to day routine.

https://plotlygraphs.medium.com/spurious-correlations-56752fcffb69

I think it’s far too simplistic to blame screens entirely. I am not saying they cannot intensify symptoms but to lay all the blame on a screen doesn’t do us any favours.

Probably because the setup and routine are completely different!? They won’t be facing all the day to day issues/demands they face at home when they’re on holiday?

A better understanding shouldn't lead to worse behaviour.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom better understanding and diagnosis of neurodiversity is one possibility

Yes, I was very like that as a child as well. (I have ADHD apparently.)

Do you have any other ideas about why there is a clear positive correlation between numbers of children being labelled ND (whether officially diagnosed or not) and children having free access to screens?

Rather than an inverse correlation, which is what you would expect if screens actually helped.

My girls are 8 and 11, so a little older now.

They didn’t have much screen time as toddlers. Tv, yes, but not tablets etc. They were never given them in buggies, restaurants etc but at that time they weren’t as prevalent as they are now.

They are polite, calm, well behaved children. However, about a year or so ago they did get into YouTube (new smart tv and they figured out how to use it). Started off with inoffensive stuff like Moriah Elizabeth but then they started watching what I can only describe as American families screaming at each other constantly. Ninja Kids, maybe?

Well - their behaviour went quite rapidly down hill. The screaming, drama and arguing sky rocketed. And wow, the utter desperation to watch it! It was awful and as clear as day to me. So we banned YouTube outright, maybe about 8 months ago now?

Their behaviour quickly returned to normal. And actually they didn’t even ask for YouTube after I came down hard about the ban. It will never darken our tv screen again.

They do like SumDog (for school) and DuoLingo on the iPad but they do also play some mindless crap too. They get some access to games on the iPad but it’s limited. They do not have phones - I am holding out as long as I can. I wish the schools would encourage less screen time.

You literally said in your own post that your ND son is currently managing well without screens on holiday.

Did you intend to some across incredibly condescending?

So in short, no. You don’t have any experience of what I’m talking about so kindly take your condescending bullshit elsewhere.

I read books 📕 obsessively. Like I would get through a 200+ page book in one day from about age eight. And I would sometimes get told off for reading too much and not interacting with other kids or adults enough.

I think part of the problem is that parents are exhausted. There’s less allowing kids to play out now with friends (more cars and other dangers) so the alternative is to entertain them yourself. Doing that all day on your own as the only adult is tiring and so screens are very tempting. Also there is a lot of social intolerance for kids noise, lots of disapproving looks and comments if your child is running about playing in public and at least where I am a lot of child friendly places have shut down.

What did ND kids use to self regulate before screens?

Because whatever it was, it seemed to work better.