To wonder why screens aren’t investigated as a cause of childhood behaviour issues?

@BertieBotts I think a rise in the last five years does point to there being a COVID related impact. But it's difficult to dissociate this from screens because so many children had massively increased access to screens during COVID.

So how can we tell whether it is due to lack of face to face social interaction, or increased screen use, or some other COVID related factor?

One thing which I think will be interesting to see is whether the upward trend of the last five years continues, or decreases again in the cohort of children who didn't live through lockdown. Again though, additional screen use may have become a habit in certain families which continued after lockdown, including with younger siblings who were born later.

But for first children born from 2022 onwards, who never lived through a lockdown and were never stuck in front of screens while their parents had to work from home, and whose first social interactions were not hindered by mask wearing, perhaps their teachers will notice a difference when they start school.

Yes, I am interested in the teachers' / EYFS staff experience because that seems more objective.

My gut feeling is that the rise people are seeing is largely that it's more visible now and it used to be more hidden (plus some actual increase, but the majority being hidden > visible).

Interesting that the rise is higher in the last 5 years - could that be COVID related? I thought the rise was also happening before covid but not sure.

I am also wondering if cuts in services might be an issue - friends of ours have a DC in reception (MS). It has been clear since he was about 18 months that he was not developing typically. Yet he did not get speech therapy until he was 3 and he didn't get diagnosed with autism until he was 4.In fact the diagnosis is still only "provisional" because he has to be seen by 2x professionals in different fields and has only been seen by one, they were told it will be a wait of up to a year to see the second specialist - that is how their local authority are getting around the waiting list issue (and even with this, he was on the first waiting list for about 2 years). He can now speak, but doesn't reliably communicate.

I was so surprised and upset for them about this because it doesn't make sense to make a non speaking 18mo wait another 18 months for speech therapy. The ideal is supposed to be a maximum of 3-4 months. It says in the NICE guidelines that speech and language development should be assessed at the 2-2.5y check "so there is time to intervene before school" - well there might not be if there's an 18 month+ waiting list.

Anyway I guess what I'm trying to say is, could it be that 10+ years ago, more obvious developmental issues were being picked up earlier, around the 9 month/2 year HV check ups and referred on to actual services rather than being stuck on a waiting list for years? And so by the time the children started in an Early Years placement they had either already had some speech therapy (or other interventions) to help close the gap between them and their typically developing peers, or they had moved to a specialist nursery - meaning staff in mainstream EYFS/reception classes did not see as many children with this level of need. (I don't know if this is how it worked or not, so I'm asking).

I know that in some areas, even before COVID the 9m and 2y checks had been combined into a single check at 1-1.5 years, and I've seen not a small number of posts on UK based parenting forums over the last few years where this 1 year check up has picked up a query/borderline language issue (I understand it's too young really to say very much unless there are significant lack of development e.g. no babbling/gestures at all) but the advice has just been "wait and see" with no follow up appointment made and that's it - the parents then aren't always being given information about how long to wait or what to look for.

I'd agree with this. 20 plus years in EYFS settings. Children are not arriving in settings the way they did even 10 years ago. In the last 5 years, the rate of complex needs children is off the scale. I am in a very disadvantaged area too so this has an impact. Every professional I meet, who frequently come in to advise and support these children with complex needs says the same thing. "What is causing the extreme rise in needs?" We all would love to know!
These aren't children who went under the radar 20 years ago. On the first visit it is often apparent that there are ND traits. The sad part is, when there are so many non verbal, high needs children who will with no doubt need an EHCP, how can the same amount of adults support them all. We do our best. The powers that be do need to listen and take note that needs cannot be met with constant budget cuts year on year.

Of the asd children i know most do love computer games mainly roblox. But one family has children after being on epilepsy meds. And another mum is alcoholic so perhaps fasd.

i would say i note that none of the asd kids i kno w seemed to regularly go to toddler groups. Even on mat leave so perhaps like a post i read recently they were not going and that instead maybe going out for coffee with mum etc rather than playing with other kids. Some did likely start nursery after mat leave. Though 1 kid who had delayed speech slightly was being put to bed very soon after nursery so basically had no parental interaction in the week. He was very placid and didnt move till about 15m would just sit watching tv

my eldest is likely audhd. (She did go almost weekly to toddler group). Had amazing early speech met all milestones. But also very hard to get to sleep and didnt go to nursery because she wouldnt settle (and with adhd behaviour wasnt safe there).
she didnt really watch tv until 1. And then was cbeebies or peppa pig. As 12 now no tablet backthen and i wasnt using a phone. She was clearly a difficult child from maybe as young as 6 months as she never took notice of no and would always do things anyway so we had to intercept. She had sensory issues with hair and teeth and suntan lotion from very young.which are ongoing with one new sensory issue from 7.
she didnt play roblox till 7 ...during covid. And had hardly used a device before then.
Socially she seemed fine-ish until year 3 at school. However she hadnt been invited to any nursery parties and was left out a lot at school. With down to 1 party invite a year by 8. From reception she had a friendship group of girls and boys but gradually drifted from all the girls. (Too rigid).
Sometimes she doesnt want to go to clubs as is playing. And frequently she doesnt want to stop as to do homework. Though she was like this before getting onto a device as during covid she took all day to do maths work. She would rather do anything else. (She would also do this re playing LOL dolls too.)
We never had devices in the car as shes car sick then. And istead had huge arguments with her sister. Likewise never use really until recently in restaurants. Always also had issues in long queues.

Until at least 6 was very difficult with her hitting/biting and endangering herself i think (probably like other sen parents we were exhausted by this point)
Outcomes could possibly have been different if she had got the diagnosis at 4. But the school were useless despite many issues - parental blame implying with no reason we werent strict enough.

i dont really think the rise in uk diagnosis or asd and adhd is screens more likely
parental age
obesity
survival of prem babies
some will be fasd as they esitmate that affects 5%
Less need to compromise (not watching tv together or playing with siblings)

Lots of people have sensory issues without having autism, or indeed any diagnosis

Oh I forgot about vaccines! Perfect comparison.

There was a time (after it was 'refrigerator mother') where vaccines were seen as a credible cause of autism (with a doctor and 'research' and everything!!) People still believe this shit 30 years later (yes, I'm a young mum and I've still been asked if I vaccinated my children). Apparently everyone was talking about the correlation and common sense of it then.

Screens is the new vaccines is the new refrigerator mother.

I had sensory issues when I was child, still do, I had ‘behavioral’ issues when I was a child. I grew up in the 80’s would have been diagnosed adhd/asd for sure! My daughter had sensory issues when she was 2 , no screens yet at that age, just all play, natural play, even tv was limited, lots Outdoor play, toddler group. Free play at home as she pleased, YABU.
another one trying to pin everything on screens ,if it’s not vaccines it’s screens. Get over it. Some people are different. And have sensory issues and always have done since forever. It’s just we are better at recognizing it now and giving it a name.

I would give up, it’s very clear from her replies that you’d only be wasting your time!

Unfortunately ignorant people exist. I know exactly what it’s like! I think for my own sanity I need to stay away from these threads..

Great post and well done for having the patience for this PP that I cannot muster.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom look, truth be told I have very little skin in this game. My 5 year old has his autism diagnosis, after 4 years of fighting/waiting. He is very well behaved unless he's exceptionally overwhelmed and we have our coping strategies for those times. He does not have (and has never had) a tablet - as I mentioned up thread.

I guess that means I'd get your approval. But your tone and your assumptions are really offensive. I'm perfectly aware of what some people think when they hear by son talk in an accent sometimes (it's his "narrating" voice and he uses it as kind of wall to hide behind sometimes) or when he's stammering or gets overwhelmed and we have to go outside. I see the looks when he politely, but not exactly appropriately, gives out his full name, address and directions to our house to people he sees on the street. They think he's picked up his accent because all I do is stick him in front of a screen. That he stutters because we don't talk to him enough. That he can't cope with "normal" situations because we've not parented properly. I feel I have to work 10 times harder just to show "see, it's not me, honest" to people who don't even care about us and with everything else I'm doing, it's exhausting.

And I know you'll say we're not the "type" of families you are talking about. But that's just the thing, isn't it? You don't Know.

I get that some parents are crap, honestly I really do. But when I see big sweeping generalisations and snippy tones, especially from those who have no real, practical idea about how hard things can be, it really rubs me up the wrong way.

The mother who said to me, "Oh, he's autistic" and then calmly turned away to continue having a good old chin wag with her friend whilst her son who was eight years old if he was a day continued to damage the play equipment in a play area for toddlers didn't look particularly stressed, to be honest.

In truth you have absolutely no idea if these children have a diagnosis or undiagnosed SEN or not but seem to have some sort of bee in your bonnet that everyone is either lying to excuse bad behaviour, or are just shit parents.
You have absolutely no idea what those parents have or are currently going through.

Do you feel superior that your perfect little NT children are so well behaved without the use of screen time? Aren’t you just the perfect parent I wish we could all be like you.

Don't forget being told to phone a million different numbers to tell your whole story again and again to people who it turns out can't help you but can signpost you to someone who might be able to. Rinse and repeat. Oh and you have to do this during working hours, while trying to stay in your job, being up all night with your child and having them regularly attack you during meltdowns.

And everybody does this. The bloody GP insisted we check out a bunch of services that DS wasn't even eligible for before he'd do the CAMHS referral - that was turned down anyway (with an error in the letter saying he'd been turned down for the ASD assessment just to cause us more stress), then accepted after the school intervened, then over three hours talking to them just for them to say the problems were caused by ND so nothing to do with them. And we got fined by the sodding hospital car park private company and had to fight that.

The whole system appears to be set up to make things as difficult as possible in the hope that you will give up and go away.

Oh, some of them certainly don't seem to be waiting for a diagnosis (or even trying to get one) before they give themselves permission to be a lazy parent.

And they give the families like the ones you are describing a bad name.

Christ on a bike, you're like a dog with a bone aren't you?

Ok, given that you, by your own admission, have no actual idea of the process, I'll enlighten you.

To even get a referral for an assessment, parents will have their own concerns. They will have spoken to health visitors, gp's, paediatritions. They will have to submit "evidence" from other settings like nursery or school. Even getting the referral takes a lot and then the threshold for accepting it onto the (3 year) waiting list for an assessment is extremely high.

Every time you speak to one of these about concerns or pass on a form for evidence, you'll be given advice - most of which you've already tried.

Then you wait. And wait. And do your best. Obviously some could do better, as can plenty of parents with NT kids.

But this idea you seem to have that there's, what, hundreds? Thousands? Of parents just passively waiting for a Sen diagnosis to be handed on a golden plate like fecking harribo at a kids party so they don't have to put any effort into parenting is as ridiculous as it is offensive.

Music doesn't stop you from seeing all the bright lights and busy environment of everyone else around you. It doesn't focus your attention on anything when the environment around you is overwhelming.

Exactly I've three ND children they behave well in public I do use screens with my youngest but he likes a lot of physical contact and it gets a bit much sometimes! The screen gives me a wee break admittedly but he puts it away when asked 🤷‍♀️

I actually get tired of shite parenting being classed as "autistic traits" and children suddenly being told no "having meltdowns"

Because they are addicted! Like an addict calming down when he gets his fix

No, it is because kids don't learn to pick up on social cues.

Tv shows used to be slower as well, they didn't have the high speed, high effects they do now and as you say you couldn't binge. We're watching the BBC old version of Chronicles of Narnia and there is so much more conversation and slow pace (despite the compressed stories) I almost find it therapeutic compared to stuff nowadays.

I think the use of screens in school is interesting - especially in the early years. DD came back from her "Outstanding" school Reception familiar with a range of cbeebies shows we had never watched - I'm not knocking the teachers, they are stressed and overloaded but say limiting after school TV to 20 mins a day become negligible if she's been watching it already at Milk Time, before lunch and at the end of the day.

There are of course bad parent of ND kids, in the same way there are bad parents of NT kids.

Parents need to intervene when a child is causing issues, lashing out, hurting others etc regardless of the issue. The parents I see repeatedly not intervening have never mentioned autism to me. They usually 100% ignore what is happening, or say something about how they are impossible to control / don't listen. I've never seen autism mentioned as an excuse in that way (and I spent a lot of time at ASN groups).