To think money is mostly about luck, not effort?

Absolutely not taking anything away from what you have achieved which is amazing and obviously done through hard work. However, I think there is luck here that may be hard to see because it is the absence of something terribly disruptive to have prevented you from following through with your plans, such as having a disabled child that forced one of you to give up work to become a carer. Or one of you have a life-changing accident etc. It might be unfair to say that you have been lucky by comparing it to someone else's misfortune but my point is that there are many reasons why people don't reach the same financial security, some of them completely unavoidable (not just spending on expensive holidays)

Children and partners are optional, and part of the delayed gratification I mentioned.

Don your own oxygen mask first, as the airlines say. Or don’t complain to me about “bad luck.”

I think it’s both. Luck plays a big role but so do choices about what you do with that luck. I was born poor but has a fabulous education due to brains (luck) and being born in a country that supported that (luck). I chose a degree and a career specifically for earning power, worked crazy hours and did well in it. But I also saved and made choices like living in a cheap area, didnt let my lifestyle inflate too much so I built assets. I’m not massively rich but I own two properties, have good pension and savings and I don’t worry about money, Many of my peers in my industry still have huge mortgages and are still quite financially insecure. But yes, there’s a lot of luck in it - I think choices once you have a good income make more difference. If you’ve got fuck all it’s hard to get out of that- you can’t save enough to really make a difference, and any small misfortune sets you back a lot. Once you have a cushion, through earnings and inheritance, you can make far more choices, good and bad, and things going wrong don’t blow you up so much.

I think that saying it’s luck really devalues people’s hard work. I also think that some people are depending on luck when they need to educating themselves on basic financial skills.

I have a theory that if you gave 3 people 100K and all started from the same position and told them they could do with it what they want. In a year you’d have 1 that had pissed it all away, 1 that is more or less in the same spot, and 1 that had increased it significantly.

My DH came from very little. Loving but poor working class family. He wanted more. Studied for a decade post 18 and worked a 60 hour week for 25 years taking on huge responsibility. He wasn't lucky he just worked for it and took opportunities when they arose. Are surgeons lucky? I suspect you are just bitter.

It’s a bit of both.

I’m from an ordinary working class
background, went to a poor comprehensive school, etc.

I work in law and earn just less than six-figures. I’m not rich but I’m very comfortable. If my career path continues to partnership, the financial rewards are very considerable.

I got here by working hard and diligently at school, while others pissed around. I decided to go to University when others said it wasn’t for them, or a waste of time and money.

I chose a profession that is secure and that I knew paid extremely well if you’re at the right level. I don’t have a massive passion for it, I chose it specifically because of the opportunities and potential earnings.

I work long hours doing stressful, intellectually demanding work. The pay reflects that.

I feel I earn what I earn thanks to the choices I made and the effort I put in. That said, I have the “brains” to be able to do it, come from a stable family background, and some of my career progression has been right place-right time.

very few entrepreneurs are self made & I think all the billionaires under 30 have come from
money.

Lots of older people have been lucky with property prices simply because of when they were born.

Luck is a massive part in it. Even down to what country you were born in. Firstly it’s luck if you were born in a first world country with the privilege of education.

if you’re born in a 3rd world country / war zone without housing, educational opportunities, access food, the likelihood is that you’ll never be financially “rich”

A lot of people don’t even seem to realise the fact that the majority of us on this app and even able to have this discussion are in the uk/eurpoe/us through luck and opportunity

I think there is a lot to be said for being financially literate. And having the time to manage money smartly. And either doing the research yourself or knowing someone who’ll give you good advice. But if you’re in a low-earning job, it can be really difficult to make financial decisions that make anything more than a marginal difference. So many factors - timing, children, a partner who shares your goals, etc.

It's nearly all luck, IMHO. Born to parents who care, with interest in education, in reasonable part of the world and with good health is all luck. Knowing how to handle money, having the charm/ability to navigate office politics - luck. Being born at the right time to be able to afford property, then leveraging it to buy more - luck.

Drives me bonkers when people smugly say 'I've worked hard for my Range Rover', or whatever, when they've worked no harder than a bin man from a broken home in a horrible town with bad health.

if you wanna make proper money you need to follow in the footsteps of robert Axelrod, you need connections, you need information, you need capital etc sure you can play the stock market on average based on other financial advisors etc but to make true wealth then you need to pull all the strings possible

No luck in that you've remained healthy and able to work. No luck that you haven't been made redundant etc? Other people could work just as hard as though and still have I'll health or redundancy

Good point on last statement…I think that would apply to me..

however I’ve said in my posts it’s not luck, or being clever, or working harder..but you need the opportunity some spare cash gives you…and not everyone on £25k can even begin to start to accumulate “robust savings”…even with disciple, prudence etc. whereas someone on £225k doesn’t need a lot of discipline or delayed gratification to build savings that will generate more wealth without much effort…

but if you are type with £225k income and not a,pot to piss…you’ve either only just got there with a lot of debt to pay off, or plainly rather stupid in taking risks or frittering it away…it takes a fair degree of stupidity to not get wealthier without trying very hard on £225k a year!

Same here. No university degree, no rich parents or good connections, bog standard comprehensive schooling in a deprived area but I’ve built a professional reputation for myself, developed my skill doing free online courses and research, and taken risks with promotions and asking for projects above my skill set to develop.

I will say though that once you get to a point where you have spare cash, it’s easier to get more. When I was on the bones of my arse, finding an extra £10 felt like a major struggle. Now I have savings and can buy bigger value items I have money just being given to me in interest or as cashback on purchases or I can buy in bulk making bigger savings on overall living costs.

@TheGreyShark , obviously from the responses to your AIBU poll the majority of Mumsnet responders agree with you. I do not. There are people who are born into wealth or who come by it as a result of luck of course but I find it frustrating that so many tell themselves that these are the sole reasons for people’s success. This is clearly and demonstrably untrue.
Firstly a lot of people work hard but most will not work like a person who is or goes on to be successful, they are tireless generally and sacrifice a huge amount of time and consequently things important and dear to them to achieve their goals. Most people would never consider the sacrifices a successful person makes and that is a solid life choice but should be acknowledged.
Successful people take risks often very large risks, you have to be a bit of a gambler to really succeed in life and sadly many will fail which is why the majority of people are risk averse with good reason.
Successful people batter their bodies and their minds, their work ethic always takes its toll, many aren’t prepared to make that sacrifice and who can blame them?
I’ve seen this ‘question’ so many times here and I have pondered why it is so frequently asked and I can only conclude that people seem to need to justify to themselves why they have not been successful. Absolutely the answer to that sometimes is that Lady Luck may not have shined on them although I would say that successful people don’t go down without one hell of a fight.
It may please you to tell yourself that you are powerless in how successful you become but you are deceiving yourself. Unless you are intellectually subnormal you can make the choice to roll the dice and make the sacrifices which can lead to success but the question is have you got it in you. Have you?

I think also mindset comes into it. Are you a spender or saver? I saw a thread here recently asking those who had received a £50 bonus from the Nationwide what they were spending the money on. I moved mine straight into my savings - it didn't occur to me to withdraw it and spend it. Equally, as a child, when I was given cash gifts for my birthday or Christmas, I saved it, other people go out and spend it.

I did say it is not about luck…specifically…If you read… luck only really comes into wealth generation with inheritance or winning premium bonds, lottery etc . Or luck comes into it if you get caught up in mass redundancy or sickness where not your fault. That happened to my ex for poorer bits.

its mostly about opportunity I think. But I still hold it is not a reflection on how hard you work, or even how clever you are, or how carefully you mind your money. If you’re poor there is no opportunity to build wealth..literally a poverty trap

i have had periods with no opportunity to build wealth- it’s depressing and scary at times. But I was same person as I am now

i have had periods when I have had opportunities mainly as I started to build savings, I could then build wealth easier and easier

sure, I’m not saying I did nothing…but seriously most of my wealth build was not rocket science and certainly took a few hours per month. Whereas I was working a 50-60 hour week to get us out of the poverty trap

Total hogwash.

I have been a financial advisor. Known people on £25k to own flats mortgage-free and have robust savings. Known people on £225k without a pot to piss in.

Assuming basic intellectual capacity, past that it’s prudence, self-discipline and the ability to delay gratification.

I sort of agree and disagree at the same time. I appreciate that I’m lucky to be in a good financial situation where some don’t have that. However I have worked really hard to be where I am with no higher ed, sometimes little confidence but a lot of perseverance and strong work ethic. I do find it mildly insulting if someone tells me I’ve been lucky to get a promotion, or lucky to get on the property ladder as it almost erases all the blood sweat and tears that went in to that.

I also have a uni friend.
got into investment banking on graduation in 1991.
so that was skill
kept his job - skill and hard work.
his initial and only placement was telecoms
He didnt have a 20’s or even 30’s but retired at 39 and set up a small business which is more for fun than money.

It's both. Some people are born into wealthy families or have better natural abilities that make it easier to earn well, obviously, but our choices can make an enormous difference, as well.

I think that saying it's mostly down to luck and that there's nothing we can do to help ourselves improve our situation and earn better can sometimes be an excuse or a demotivating attitude. For most people, vast wealth is probably not a realistic goal, but the majority of us could do better if we were sufficiently motivated.

It’s only luck if they are handed it IME. We have an intern at the moment at work, who comes from a very rich (parents are in government - foreign country -very wealthy) family.
They are 20, and have clearly spent their entire childhood throughout school not listening or learning anything they don’t think is relevant to them, such as the religion of the school into which they were placed, or the history of the country in which they now live, since they don’t think they will need to.

Such arbitrary dismissal of topics that a 6 - 19-year-old thinks they won’t need to know, and from an early age, without apparently being told they need to learn everything they can, is a dangerous premise.

Trying to train them to do tasks is a nightmare - they not only have the attention span of a goldfish, so everything has to be explained numerous times, but are also apparently incapable of retaining any information.

What a contrast with a previous intern, child of a global company owner/director, who had achieved extremely high results in all their exams, but was also an accomplished musician and artist. They “got” everything on the first instruction and proved to be a valuable employee - something their father was keen to promote, since they would inherit the family business one day.

The difference between these two is like night and day, and yes, luck did play some role in the second intern described - the luck to have parents that set the bar high…

But it’s not only wealthy parents that set the bar high: a lot of poorer parents also encourage and support their DC, and quite a few DC work hard without that encouragement, too, because they have ambition.

Those who have been encouraged or have ambition normally make their own luck!

Leaving aside inheritance, earned wealth from a high paying job is usually a mix of luck and hard work. I’ve been lucky in the opportunities I’ve had, lucky to be born here and now and not in Afghanistan, lucky that my health problems don’t stop me working, but I have made the most of every opportunity, and worked incredibly hard. Someone else could have had the same early opportunities but without the graft, nothing would have come of them.

Yes DH and I have been very lucky. DH works hard, but he happened to enter a lucrative industry at just the right time and is fortunate to naturally have the right skillset, so he has a great salary and company shares which have ballooned. Myself I've been unlucky in lots of ways and have been very poor, but I got lucky later in life through investments rather than a career. No hard work but a lot of research and mental resilience, which not everyone has. And I have achieved it across a range of assets, not just got lucky with one pick.
However neither of us were given money through inheritence or gifts from family.