To think money is mostly about luck, not effort?

No it’s mostly about attitude, talent and skill which you conveniently ignore, plus a healthy dose of luck.
People envious of others lamenting their miserable lives often like to say it’s out of their control. It isn’t. But it’s not about hard work. It’s a meritocracy. Get educated. Learn a valuable skill. And rise through the ranks.

No I don't for the reasons I have given in my post. Risk is risk it isn't comfortable for anyone. I would actually say age makes it easier to start a business than wealth. Younger you are the more opportunity there is to gain back any loss so the risk is smaller.

Let's not forget within that same generation millions will also have been unlucky.

@Needspaceforlego add you replying to my post? I am the one acknowledging luck. I agree with you millions were unlucky as opposed to making bad choice, not working hard enough.

I think luck will always play its part. I feel lucky to be born into a Country where education is free, where women are allowed to work, where medical care at source is free. So in that sense yes of course I am lucky. But, I think it’s wrong to always assume people who have “more” than you have it because they are, in the main, lucky.
A pp mentioned growing up in a broken home in a shit town. DH grew up in care. I had entirely absent parents. We have never and will never be given anything, and actually I sometimes feel lucky for that because it means we both always knew we’d have to work for it. We both grew up feeling “less than” so had something to prove I think?
Another pp mentioned risk. Any yes, in our case, absolutely, we took enormous risks with zero safety net and made massive sacrifices. Most people, quite understandably, don’t want to do that. It worked out and that’s what got us where we are. Are we lucky we were both physically and mentally well enough to actually do that? Yes, of course, but it definitely isn’t just luck.

Totally agree with this- so much of money management is about your mindset around money and that absolutely can be changed.

Yes, noone can deny that if you are handed a lottery win or a huge inheritance that it is "lucky" - thats very obvious, but its a known phenomenon that many lottery winners eventually go bankrupt because they arent used to managing money and they spend it all due to their beliefs around money. From US research- approx 70% of lottery winners lose it all within a few years. Just look at how many celebrities end up bankrupt after earning millions at the height of their fame.

I know people who earn a lot and therefore could be seen as "lucky" but they fritter it on crap and are massively in debt as a result and equally, I know people who havent been objectively lucky but had a healthy mindset around money and saved. Ignoring all this is makes you powerless in your life and its important to be aware of the factors involved if you want to save and build wealth.

Almost everybody has luck though. It depends how far you want to take it.
Born in the west?
Born with healthy mind and body?
Have a home, bed, cleaning running water?
Access to free education?
Access to books?
Parents weren’t abusive?
Didnt suffer lifelong injuries or die in an accident?

Lets not deny that in this country, it’s mostly hard work that makes the real difference between a comfortable life and a struggling one.
When you look at the very wealthy, there could be more luck involved or even harder work.

As with most generalisations, it will be true for some people, and not for others.
Some people get rich through inheritance or lottery wins. Of that group, some don’t have the sense to invest or spend the money wisely, and find themselves in the same position they were previously in - despite their ‘luck’.
The inverse is also true. Some people come from no money, and work hard in minimum wage jobs and never have any money. Others come from nothing and work their way to higher paying jobs / start businesses and have plenty of money.
Some people’s parents have a lot, but leave them nothing. Of that group, some succeed, some don’t.

Ultimately, having wealth is usually a combination of hard work and opportunities. What you do to create those opportunities for yourself, probably largely depends on how big your world is.

DH and I have worked incredibly hard during our lives and taken risks (calculated, but still risky) which have paid off. DH’s physical and mental health in particular has suffered recently, so we have sold our business and are working on healing him. Nothing about our situation has had anything to do with luck, it’s 100% hard work and being prepared to go outside our comfort zones. Absolutely no family money either, we’ve done it all ourselves.

Luck plays a part, but honestly this sort of thinking is why a lot of people feel stuck with their (crappy) lot in life and don't bother working to try and escape the poverty cycle.

I'm lucky in that I am able bodied and sound of mind so was able to go to university and study for a degree- but being the first in my family, out of my peers I grew up with wasn't easy. I worked several jobs to keep afloat and faced a lot of animosity and horribleness from people back home. Quite often when I go back a lot will say how lucky I am to have a nice house and not be struggling, which yes I am, but it wasn't handed to me on a plate. I will never inherit a penny and have known its been up to me to change my future. I suppose i was maybe lucky that I did secure a bursary in third year because my addict brother dying invoked pity from the panel.

Life would certainly have been easier and I would have felt a lot luckier if I'd been handed money or had money growing up that's for sure, and being born into a wealthy family is down to luck.

The point I am making is that I don't agree with your statement, which is illustrated with my points.

You don't agree that it's easier to start a business and take risks if you have a safety net? Fair enough.

My in-laws bought in Hackney because they couldn't afford much else & it was cheap as it was rough back then. House is worth 2m now because of the incredible gentrification. Someone who bought in another rough part of the country that hasn't seen huge gains is that because they didn't work hard?

The point I am making is that I don't agree with your statement, which is illustrated with my points. Neither of the statements are about generational wealth.

Let's not forget within that same generation millions will also have been unlucky.
Leaving school going into big heavy industries thinking they had a job for life that quite simply just don't exist any more.

Mining
Steel and ironworks
Ship building
Car manufacturers
Hundreds of smaller factories doing clothes everything from knickers, to overalls, Levis jeans, electronics factories.

There was a time in the 80s when it was constantly on the news, hundreds of jobs to go here, hundreds of jobs to go there,

That decimates towns and villages up and down the country. When the bigger employers closes than has a knock on effect on other business too. People have less money and to go out so the local pub has a down turn in business, etc etc.

I’ve known a lot of extremely clever people who would have had completely different lives if they had been born to different families.

And extremely mediocre people who did extremely well due the families they were born into.

Having a good boss at the right time can make or break a career.

Having family who are able to help you see the breadth of career opportunities out there.

Personality plays a huge part too.

Even ‘working hard’ will depend a lot on personality and energy levels and how much sleep you need.

We are all born with different personalities and some people cannot just ‘work on leadership skills’

Luck plays a huge role. Well done for recognizing it OP.

So why are some of the same generation poor / not home owners?

Not every part of the country has seen huge equity gains. Why would you think that?

@Marchitectmummy I'm not sure what point you are making? A safety net isn't borrowing half of your house it's using family money for initial capital or knowing if you run out of savings you won't lose your home because family can step in.

once you get wealthy even stupid and lazy people can start to multiply their wealth exponentially …or they can afford to pay an expert financial and tax consultant to do something cleverer.

Rich stupid people (inheritance?) make very bad choices and often end up losing it.
its rarely just luck. My DH has come from absolutely nothing and from being very career focused (which is distinct from working hard), pursuing a role he is deeply passionate about and good at, in an area that is well remunerated- he is wealthy now. he’s been clever about investments too

I don't think it's luck but wise choices. I have made bad career choices to stay long term in jobs that weren't financially rewarding, minimal payrises every 5yrs or so whilst the boss got richer. I've now chosen to stay in a company that does reward it's employees which has finally brought my pay and benefits in line to what they should have been all along.

So why are some of the same generation poor / not home owners?

One of the things people are missing is luck, which plays a part in opportunities.

I got a lucky break getting my first job in a small business. But then got paid off a year later as the business was struggling to pick up work.

DH was lucky to have got an apprenticeship with a much bigger more stable company. Who at the time believed in promoting from within.

And it can be the same for graduates from the same course.
If ones lucky and gets a start with a company whose ethos is promoting from within they'll go further than a business who wants to buy in experience.

And different divisions within a company can be very different. Different managers make different decisions.

The first 5 years I was with my current company people were always being promoted.
Change of MD nobody has been promoted in the last 5 years. Loads of people with long service 20, 30, even 40 years have left to go elsewhere as they were being completely overlooked.

@Marshbird of course people gain from increased property wealth even if it's just the one house they have. They can borrow against it to buy a BTL as many have done or use money to improve and increase the value further or help their dc onto the ladder. And of course many people move to a different, cheaper area when buying their next property so it doesn't have to cost more. Most people don't go into care homes.

I do wish people would engage their brains on this

Same...,

and we weren’t so lucky during 1980s when many people lost their homes, ended up with negative equity due to falling house prices when interest rates were at 17% …

No one said that was lucky. Interest rates of 17% are not to dissimilar to the 5/6% rates of today because of the higher prices. But no MIRAS today. And many today are in negative equity because in many areas flats have stagnated in price.

this is trite thinking, inter generational blame game

It's not trite or a blame game to acknowledge that many older people have been lucky with house price gains. Why do you want to pretend it isn't a thing? Acknowledging something doesn't mean you are blaming someone.

Why is it? No one wants to lose money, if you live in 1m house would you want to risk 500k of it to start a business? If you are comfortably earning 100k per year would you want to risk leaving that and earning nothing for three years?

Risk is a hard choice for everyone and actually there is a school of thought that risk is actually easier if you have nothing to lose.

Anyone can choose to become a lawyer, banker, dr, dentist, IT expert, accountant etc. let’s be honest here, the vast majority of people either choose a shit paid job for some idealistic or lazy reason, aren’t smart enough (good enough grades) or don’t think they are able for one of the well paid industries.

Thats not really luck at all. It’s just bed choices or apathy.

Unless you talk about WHY they make those crap choices. Luck does come in with the parents you were born to.

I don't think I agree that it's luck,but it is linked to graping opportunities when they come.

My husband and I as an example both studied at uni for 7 years and worked hard at school before that to ensure we had the grades we needed to enable us to study where and what we wanted.

Left Uni and into our professions I'm and architect he is a surgeon. Continued to work hard and learn what we needed for our own ambitions. I wanted to own my own practice, he wanted to grow and become brilliant.

I set up my practice with 2 friends from uni, it took a lot to do, was scary, led to lots of questioning ourselves, delaying starting a family, lots of dedication in terms of time and commitment.

Now years later we have 5 children, live in a beautiful house in London and life looks good. No one now sees our earlier stress, long 7 days per week working and signing up to rental leases for my practice that committed us for millions for the next 10 years. They also don't see the tough decision we both need to make daily at work, the stress and worries and negative things we have to deal with at work. The succession planning we are doing now to ensure the practice doesn't close and we are all left paying very high insurance costs.

No one actually in my experience accumulates or holds onto money for nothing it takes focus, determination and often large risks.

I actually think it's really dangerous to over state the role that luck plays on life. I'm not saying it's irrelevant but I think very few people have their outcomes determined by luck. We all have a huge influence over what happens to us and this includes the financial aspect of life.

How I see it is that we are all in a race. Some start further back from others and have more barriers to overcome. Some will start with advantages and be helped along the way. Ultimately though, you have to run your own race as best you can and the more effort you put in and wise decisions you make, you increase your odds of finishing the race well. If you give up and expect other people to carry you then you are never going to win and you will become bitter as you see people race ahead of you.