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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think money is mostly about luck, not effort?

208 replies

TheGreyShark · 13/04/2025 21:47

I’ve been thinking about how much luck plays a role in financial success. Some people work incredibly hard and never get ahead, while others are born into wealth, stumble into the right opportunities, or just happen to be in the right place at the right time.

I personally feel like the money I have is due to luck, not effort. If I’d been born in different circumstances or made different connections, my financial situation would be totally different.

AIBu to think money is mostly down to luck rather than hard work? Or is effort actually the key factor?

OP posts:
PeachesPeachesPeachesPeachesPeaches · 14/04/2025 09:03

polkaloca · 13/04/2025 22:59

Lots of older people have been lucky with property prices simply because of when they were born.

Exactly this. Talking about how they worked hard to be mortgage free and have two properties etc when a hard working 21 year old today earning around £25k with no family support is never going to get on the property ladder at all. The economy you existed in during your 20s and 30s is luck!!!

Marshbird · 14/04/2025 08:56

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 07:00

@Marshbird of course people gain from increased property wealth even if it's just the one house they have. They can borrow against it to buy a BTL as many have done or use money to improve and increase the value further or help their dc onto the ladder. And of course many people move to a different, cheaper area when buying their next property so it doesn't have to cost more. Most people don't go into care homes.

I do wish people would engage their brains on this

Same...,

and we weren’t so lucky during 1980s when many people lost their homes, ended up with negative equity due to falling house prices when interest rates were at 17% …

No one said that was lucky. Interest rates of 17% are not to dissimilar to the 5/6% rates of today because of the higher prices. But no MIRAS today. And many today are in negative equity because in many areas flats have stagnated in price.

this is trite thinking, inter generational blame game

It's not trite or a blame game to acknowledge that many older people have been lucky with house price gains. Why do you want to pretend it isn't a thing? Acknowledging something doesn't mean you are blaming someone.

Most people do not take equity form their home to buy rental..in fact private small scale landlords are selling due to the increase in tenants rights which means they can’t sell up at a whim by serving tenants notice. Nor do most people move to cheaper areas…generally they want to move to areas with better schools when kids are young if they can possibly afford to do so,or “nicer “ areas. You’re highlighting a small group of people in the minority. Most landlords either inherited money to buy property, or set themselves up on old buy to let, or are property developing as a living.

butni suspect you do know this with your “yes, buts…”

miras was limited to a 30k mortgage, targeting those that had low mortgage and wages. We, as a newly married couple in late twenties never qualified. I have never benefitted from any tax relief or benefits on mortgage or housing costs. My parents never benefitted form it either. Nor my siblings or anyone I knew. Yes it did peak to £ 9million relief being paid out in 1990-1991, and it was realised it was an unaffordable tax scheme and rates of tax relief were pulled back very quickly.

i say it’s trite to say older people benefitted form house price gains, becuase the reality is most will never benefit form the accumulated value of their property , in terms of cash in pocket, forum those gains. The money is tied into the very bricks and mortar they live in. If they don’t end up in care and paying for that with house equity, then it’s younger generation that will see the benefit from inheritence. And equally value of property could fall, as it did in 1990s. That is the reality. I’m not denying on paper older peoples property value make them seem wealthy, never said that.

It’s the same as people valuing themselves or a company based on the value of their investments today..it’s paper wealth..it is meaningless until assets are crystallised. As people are finding out with trumps games just now. Or the reason I get so bloody angry with personal pension policy that everyone is pretty much pushed into these days…rather than state pension contributions and benefits being raised- your very pensions these days are based on nominal paper value of investment on a day- at any time the value of your personal pension could crash meaning you can’t retire when you thought, or meaning you have less pension income. NI didn’t work like that- it was a gunarenteed income.

so if you want to pop at how much easier the older generation have it, I’ll give you that one..state of pension for anyone under 45 is outrageous..and no one complained or petioles at time to stop it happening. Now that does make me insanely angry on behalf of future generations.

older people, as you put it, didn’t have a lot of luck around other things that impacted their wealth…unemployment was massive (my own exh was made redundant 7 times in 10 years hence our own poverty at times), we paid more on fuel, food up to mid 1990s , then people even pay now as proportion of income (a fact a lot of folks fail to actually look at historical statistic for). Form 2008 to 2017 ish we have never had such a sustained period of low interest rates, many people think that’s the norm. It isn’t. The average interest rates over last 100 years is actually 8%, high than now when people are struggling with cost of living crisis.

The issue here is not costs, the issue is wages. Wages are stagnant, lower, and wealth inequality is frankly a moral outrage. As is the zero hour gig economy impacting many poorer people. The waelthy folks like to say how “flexible” it is…the poorer people know how uncertain it is. We’re back to 1920s, the difference is the political apathy of those impacted …the 1920s saw the rise of unions to battle this inequality…most youngsters don’t want to join unions and fight for their rights. Or voting for reform and blaming immigrants.

Everyone will experience hard times and easier times over their life times. Right now current 20-30 year old are struggling getting on housing market. That isn’t down to older generation, or luck, that’s down to political decisions around wage inequality, social housing etc. but they will, over their lifetime, experience more prosperous times, every generation does. Things change. That’s the certainty. And as I say those kids that can’t get on the housing market, like my own 30 year olds living in south in good professional jobs, will eventually get there…just from what left of mine and exh estates and house prices when we die. I suspect, with luck of one of us at least not getting dementia, they’ll be a lot wealthier than me eventually.

nothouseproud · 14/04/2025 08:54

The same old trope.
What a dismissive and patronising response. Did you miss the part about making generalisations?

Needspaceforlego · 14/04/2025 08:47

NeedToChangeName · 14/04/2025 08:24

A lot of luck involved, but also life choices

If they live a frugal lifestyle, many people can put £ into savings to tide them through difficult times . Some choose to live for the moment, YOLO etc, and it can backfire on them

For some who are often teetering around the benefits threshold, getting short term contracts having huge savings is pointless.

Needspaceforlego · 14/04/2025 08:43

You also have to consider if your lucky enough to be born into a family who value education.

If your someone who gets little encouragement at home to practice reading or to do homework then your chances of success have to be reduced.

Needspaceforlego · 14/04/2025 08:38

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 08:15

By far the biggest indicator of a person's eventual wealth is their parents' finances and social status. Luck plays a huge part.

It's interesting so many refute this though.

Actually there is evidence to suggest Grandparents success is more important than parents success.

If you have sucessful Grandparents you are more likely to be successful yourself.

Part of the thinking is, if your parents go off the rails, your DGPs can pull you through but if DGPs are off the rail. Parents are likely to be too, and therefore you life chances deminish.

NeedToChangeName · 14/04/2025 08:24

A lot of luck involved, but also life choices

If they live a frugal lifestyle, many people can put £ into savings to tide them through difficult times . Some choose to live for the moment, YOLO etc, and it can backfire on them

RonObvious · 14/04/2025 08:19

Choices play a big role too, though. I work in academia, and I love my job. I enjoy the travel, the creativity, and I have great colleagues. However, with my skill set, I could side step into an industry role with more money and a better chance of promotion. Every so often I consider it, but ultimately stay where I am, because I enjoy it. I think making money can also be about choosing to do something you don't enjoy - work-wise or pressure-wise - in order to climb that salary ladder. Plus, having the guts to negotiate for the salary you want (another thing I'm not good at).

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 08:15

By far the biggest indicator of a person's eventual wealth is their parents' finances and social status. Luck plays a huge part.

It's interesting so many refute this though.

EdithStourton · 14/04/2025 08:15

It's always some mix of both.

Health, brains, background, location, educational opportunities, personality - so much feeds into it.

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 08:14

I'm not happy that anyone would consider inheriting wealth is always 'lucky'. Sometimes it's bloody tragic actually, and that's the problem with making such sweeping statements.

The same old trope. Nobody is lucky to lose a parent but not everyone who loses someone inherits, that's the luck part!

Annajones101 · 14/04/2025 08:08

Right place, right time has a lot to do with it.

That said,

If you work hard, there is a small chance that you may make it without luck.
If you don’t work at it, even right place, right time will be wasted on you. Let’s face it, in western countries, most people are in the right place, at the right time, yet many have no inclination to make anything of themselves, always complaining about how society has failed them, always wanting the taxpayer to give them more, and being perpetually entitled.

Comtesse · 14/04/2025 07:51

There is also a role for judgement in terms of financial success - separate to luck and hard work.

Eg choosing to study computer science rather than media studies opens up higher paying careers. You can choose to be a professional violinist but no matter how hard you work, you are unlikely to make tons of money.

NB media and music are great, interesting professions, just not paid like banking or tech.

SnoozingFox · 14/04/2025 07:48

Partly luck yes, if you're born into a billionaire's family. But mostly attitude to it. Are you a "do as much as you can" person or a "get away with as little as possible". Are you frugal or a spendthrift. Saver or spender.

nothouseproud · 14/04/2025 07:47

I strongly disagree OP. Some people inherit wealth/win the lottery and keep it, some piss it away. I would say that the majority of people who created their own wealth did so through hard work/having the ability to spot and exploit opportunities.

DH worked bloody hard in a job where staying awake for 48hrs at a time (in the days before H&S laws) and being away from home for a month at a time was the norm. I was virtually a single mum for many years as he worked his way up the career ladder.

We went on holiday rarely yet, and I worked too, but sometimes could only save £10 a month. After the DC finished uni and left home, we were finally able to save and became comfortably off. The kicker is that after working hard all his life and retiring at 65 on health grounds, DH passed away. He had received a pension for all of five months.

I'm not happy that anyone would consider inheriting wealth is always 'lucky'. Sometimes it's bloody tragic actually, and that's the problem with making such sweeping statements.

Abitlosttoday · 14/04/2025 07:40

By far the biggest indicator of a person's eventual wealth is their parents' finances and social status. Luck plays a huge part.

bigvig · 14/04/2025 07:40

50% of all wealth in this country is inherited. It's largely background - both in terms of inheritance but also schooling and career advice. Obviously there are exceptions but those are exceptions.

Boredlass · 14/04/2025 07:38

My DH worked very hard to get where he is. Grew up in poverty and now doing very well. He received nothing from his parents. Worked full time then did night school straight after. It was hard work, not luck

MesmerisingMuon · 14/04/2025 07:35

Luck might help a few people but most people make their own finances and any inheritance is often quite late in life.

My parents are wealthy but both came from working class families. What they did have was encouragement to study, ambition to work hard, and confidence to go for new opportunities.

Myself and DH are financially secure but not a penny from our parents. We both work hard and looked for opportunities and thought about our future.

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 07:31

No I don't for the reasons I have given in my post

But my answer is based on how many people rely on family support to launch a business vs borrowing from the bank or against your home. It's not based on 'feels' 🤷🏻‍♀️

TheHerboriste · 14/04/2025 07:29

Preposterious · 14/04/2025 07:18

Almost everybody has luck though. It depends how far you want to take it.
Born in the west?
Born with healthy mind and body?
Have a home, bed, cleaning running water?
Access to free education?
Access to books?
Parents weren’t abusive?
Didnt suffer lifelong injuries or die in an accident?

Lets not deny that in this country, it’s mostly hard work that makes the real difference between a comfortable life and a struggling one.
When you look at the very wealthy, there could be more luck involved or even harder work.

Agree.
And few people today work as hard as individuals used to.

My parents, grandparents and my sister and I have almost always worked two jobs or otherwise generated multiple income streams (lodgers etc). The younger generations I know are aghast at having housemates let alone lodgers, and don’t want to work second shifts or weekends.

But that’s how we got ahead, built large savings and acquired property. It didn’t fall into our laps. One has to hustle.

TheHerboriste · 14/04/2025 07:29

Preposterious · 14/04/2025 07:18

Almost everybody has luck though. It depends how far you want to take it.
Born in the west?
Born with healthy mind and body?
Have a home, bed, cleaning running water?
Access to free education?
Access to books?
Parents weren’t abusive?
Didnt suffer lifelong injuries or die in an accident?

Lets not deny that in this country, it’s mostly hard work that makes the real difference between a comfortable life and a struggling one.
When you look at the very wealthy, there could be more luck involved or even harder work.

Agree.
And few people today work as hard as individuals used to.

My parents, grandparents and my sister and I have almost always worked two jobs or otherwise generated multiple income streams (lodgers etc). The younger generations I know are aghast at having housemates let alone lodgers, and don’t want to work second shifts or weekends.

But that’s how we got ahead, built large savings and acquired property. It didn’t fall into our laps. One has to hustle.

TheHerboriste · 14/04/2025 07:29

Preposterious · 14/04/2025 07:18

Almost everybody has luck though. It depends how far you want to take it.
Born in the west?
Born with healthy mind and body?
Have a home, bed, cleaning running water?
Access to free education?
Access to books?
Parents weren’t abusive?
Didnt suffer lifelong injuries or die in an accident?

Lets not deny that in this country, it’s mostly hard work that makes the real difference between a comfortable life and a struggling one.
When you look at the very wealthy, there could be more luck involved or even harder work.

Agree.
And few people today work as hard as individuals used to.

My parents, grandparents and my sister and I have almost always worked two jobs or otherwise generated multiple income streams (lodgers etc). The younger generations I know are aghast at having housemates let alone lodgers, and don’t want to work second shifts or weekends.

But that’s how we got ahead, built large savings and acquired property. It didn’t fall into our laps. One has to hustle.

SwanOfThoseThings · 14/04/2025 07:29

I would probably use the term 'chance' rather than 'luck'. There are lots of factors around background, parents' wealth, inheritance, connections and so on, but also what characteristics a person is born with.

Someone who is clever and/or good looking has a better chance in life than someone who is of low intelligence and/or unattractive. It doesn't follow automatically that one will end up rich and the other poor but the opportunities presented to the clever, attractive person will be greater than to the unintelligent and unattractive person.

Add to that the immense variables in background and the result is that people are given very different tickets in life's lottery.

polkaloca · 14/04/2025 07:26

* Let's* not deny that in this country, it’s mostly hard work that makes the real difference between a comfortable life and a struggling one.

But why isn't social mobility improving?

"Previous work has shown that intergenerational income mobility in England was lower for those born in 1970 than those born in 1958. Using administrative data on the most recent birth cohorts for whom earnings data are available, we find no evidence of recovery from that decline. National estimates of mobility of cohorts born in the late 1980s looks very similar to those of the 1970 cohort and education inequalities continue to be the dominant mediator."

Because of housing now days it's very much about if your parents own/can help you on the ladder vs your income.

"Second, existing research on intergenerational mobility has tended to focus on income from earnings. We find that ‘unearned’ sources of income, here meaning returns to wealth and wealth transfers received, look to be an important driver of the persistence across generations in total lifetime income (i.e. the sum of earnings and returns to wealth and wealth transfers received). These ‘unearned’ sources of income are likely to be of growing importance over time."