To not go chasing after my mum all the time!

My mother also has an unstable personality and can’t maintain civility to a level I respect. She is far too old to resolve her failings now and no doubt her own childhood left her with the scars damaging her ability to interact well. I ignore her problems in order to model well balanced adulthood. I just always carry on normally despite her spikiness and oddities. I’m sorry your mother is similarly disadvantaged. It’s not nice having a cold mother who is hoity toity, is it. It does tend to hurt every time. But it isn’t personal as such, it’s just someone not relating in a considerate way.

OP, putting some healthy boundaries in place and maintaining the relationship on your terms is not the same as abandoning her. If she distances herself that’s her doing.

You had a horrible abusive childhood. You’re now having a horrible, abusive adulthood

she is not a ‘good Nan’ to your kids, they see this behaviour

you are being gaslighted constantly. A woman with no friends, who doesn’t talk to her parents or brother and relies solely on someone she groomed to run around after her is a MASSIVE ARSEHOLE.

drop her or put mega boundaries in place, get some therapy if you can afford it to process you being frightened and walking on eggshells and never being hugged or told you were loved

This is the issue with a relationship like this. It's very confusing and scary to imagine doing anything as drastic as breaking contact completely despite the level of abuse going on. I went on for years with my toxic mother until I couldn't take it anymore.

I would strongly recommend some therapy to unpick this issue because it's very hard to imagine a way out. It doesn't necessarily have to be NC but there's work to be done to unravel the dysfunction. Op has been well trained by her mother.

As I have said in my previous posts I feel absolutely no attachment to my mother, I couldn't have said that 15 years ago and would have been defending her.

Backtracking in the sense that everything in your OP was negative about your mum' behaviour and treatment of your and your sister and in subsequent posts you are making excuses for her behaviour.

Grey rock good yes no short answers. I find when my mother bored she starts demands. Carers for our hols for her that type of thing if nobody calling. She fitter than me lol. Find she would be over involved if I let it I dont.

I doubt she’s ’very complex’, she’s just a mean old baggage who is using and abusing you as she has trained you to accept/

get some therapy quick ! Stop driving over there ! You are wasting your life on this AND she’s a bitch to you and has no friends !

wise up !!!

You are pretty much backtracking on what you said in your OP. This is your description of your childhood:

She didn’t have a maternal bone in her body growing up and me and my sister never got shown any love or affection. We were pretty terrified of her really and it felt like we were always walking on eggshells.

As an adult, you have described her being cruel and petty to you, giving you the silent treatment and telling you that she can speak to you however she wants and you can't answer back.

The more badly she behaves, the harder you try to please her. She has complete power over you and will never change her behaviour if you don't change yours.

Also, be aware that she might be a good grandmother now but wait until your children are a bit older and they start showing their personalities, preferences etc more. She won't be able to help herself being abusive towards them the same way she was/is to you.

100%

DD is 15 and stood up for herself to MIL (promises MIL had made and broke, MIL calling DD names) and instead of MIL thinking oh crap, ive messed up, my fave GD is really upset, she called her a brat and ignored her

I know you feel sorry for her but op, what about you? Her feelings and needs are not above yours.
That's what boundaries are for. They help you acknowledge that you love her, care for her and feel sorry for her but also protect yourself.

Your dm has treated you with extremes, either a nice person doing nice things or completely ignoring you. There's nothing in between.

It's hard to maintain the in between. It's uncomfortable to hold two opposing thoughts at the same time.
But unless you want to go NC that what you need to learn tolerance for, that sticky discomfort of feeling sorry for her but also maintaining your own boundary and not letting her abuse you.

She has previously made a comment to me about how parents can speak to their adult children however they want and the ‘child’ (even though they are now adults) have no right to stand up to the parent.
She obviously thinks the strict parent-child dynamic I grew up in should remain until the day either of us die. I.e she believes she can speak to me and treat me however she likes and as she’s my mother I just have to take it

I got to this part OP
DHs mother believes the same - they are so very very wrong

We busted her bad mouthing us on our cameras** Her reaction was to blow up about how rude we were to watch our camera footage, she is OWED privacy in our home, in our backyard and we have to just get over what she said

**DH was in bedroom, MIL and her 2 friends out back and he thought he heard her bad mouth us through our open window, went to cameras to confirm before he said anything and found out she said much more

This happened on her last visit last month, the exact situation that started the all out fight where everything came out
We are now NC and she is banned from our house

Your mental health and self worth is worth steeping back for

You are not responsible for her.

She is abusive and you've been conditioned by her to feel responsible for her emotional state.

My dm is the same. I'm in my 50s and wish I'd gone nc years ago, but it now feels pointless as she's in her 80s so I'm lc.

Also, be aware that she might be a good grandmother now but wait until your children are a bit older and they start showing their personalities, preferences etc more. She won't be able to help herself being abusive towards them the same way she was/is to you.

YANBU, hold your boundary op 💐

And what helped me was the "Shit sandwich" analogy... If you had a lovely perfect tasty sandwich, all your favourite ingredients, it looks delicious...but there's also a spoonful of shit mixed into it... Well. you wouldn't eat it, would you? The same goes for this situation. The spoonful of shit tarnishes and destroys the supposed good parts. It's not like you can ever just scrape it off.

Hold tight. Put yourself first. Keep her on a strict "information diet" about your life and what you're up to. You owe her nothing, actually, common human decency is the prerequisite for loving relationships and she's actively going against providing that to you, the person she should cherish the most.

We deserve and should expect better ,but also you've had forty years of blatant examples that she can never be the mum you need. You will never receive what you want or deserve from her, she cannot do it for whatever reasons (in my mum's case it's also linked to childhood abuse, BUT she never chosen to try and improve/get therapy or break the cycle, so I've withdrawn hugely, to protect myself).

Bullies can't bully if you withdraw yourself from their toxic little game.

Have you tried stopping contact every time she’s rude? So that she gets the message that poor behaviour results in no attention.

You need to protect your own mental health in this OP. In your shoes I would be stepping back and not dancing to her tune. That won't be easy, as you've allowed her to dictate things for so long.

For some reason, because of a sense of obligation and guilt, you feel that you must pander to your mother in a way that normal, kind, supportive mothers would never expect from their children.

Mums are not automatically good people just because they have given birth. Think about the awful mums who have committed criminal acts such as murder and children abuse. Rose West is still a mum. Obviously your mum is in a different category, but she is still a terrible mum to you.

If you stopped seeing her, can you think of one single thing that you would miss?

OP she doesn't have many friends because she is a cow..simple! I would caution you to be on guard as to how great a grandma she is. I am sure she would turn on your children without haste should she see fit. I am another one with such a mother. My dd was 10 years old when out of nowhere she told my mum to shut up and stop bullying me. You see it takes something like that to lift any fog. Your children like mine will notice and it will break their hearts to see how their lovely mum is being treated,be aware. You owe her nothing for all the mental abuse you have had to endure. Life would be so much happier without her I promise you.The egg shells you have to walk on,the geeing yourself up to see her wondering what you are going to walk into,the stress when the phone goes praying its not her again..gone. You reach freedom,its awesome. You endure peace of mind which is beyond words and you stop being judged. its wonderful.You live ...really live surrounded by people who love you unconditionally and suddenly life is good.

OP read up on the FOG - fear, obligation, guilt. I sense in your posts a sort of desperation to find something to cling to, a reason why she might be like this rather than she's just nasty, sorry for her having no friends so you have to be her friend.

You don't have to do any of that. She enjoys having power over you and she abuses it. Choose how much you want to be involved with her, not how much you think you should be.

And I'd be wary about calling her a good gran. She might be now but I very much suspect she'll change as they get older. She will expect them to behave how she wants, just as she does with you.

Out of the Fog: Moving From Confusion to Clarity After Narcissistic Abuse: Amazon.co.uk: Morningstar, Dana: 9780999593516: Books

YABU. You are expecting her to change and she isn't going to. You must take matters into your own hands. First you have one phone call a week. Keep it relatively short. Don't give her any information about your personal life if possible and just talk abort HER. Similarly keep visits short and less frequent. I was like this because I craved my DM to be the mother I wanted and needed her to be instead of accepting who she was. Don't waste your time trying to make her love you the way you want to be loved. Also get some self help books eg lindsay Gibson. If that doesn't help seek professional help. My DM died several years ago and I feel so less conflicted and rejected. Don't wait to make changes. Good luck.