To want to be fluent in a second language?

Italian broadsheet newspapers....why use one word when four will do?! 😬

My son worked overseas a lot of Spanish spoken at work and socially. As well as normal study, you tube Etc friends gave him Spanish newspapers and said read them every day.

So start reading would be my advice.

Language teacher here. I teach French, German and Spanish. I only started learning Spanish when I was in my 40s and got myself to A Level standard. Imo doing tons and tons of listening is the key. That is the main way you learn when you go and live in a country. Listening helps with everything- comprehension, sentence structure, pronunciation, everything except spelling really.

My favourite way to learn Spanish was through podcasts and audiobooks. Started with beginner podcasts and moved up to intermediate. I listened to Spanish Audible versions if English books I knew really really well (I started with the whole Harry Potter series ). You can slow it right down. This was my favourite way to learn!

I didn't really need to do much to learn the grammar, as I'm a linguist and find that side of language easy, but it's a good idea to get a grammar book or find a website where you can practise grammar exercises, especially for the tenses.

Is it expensive to learn online?

I've been learning French for over 40 years, teach it, and lived there for three months twice in my 20s but I still wouldn't really count myself as completely fluent!! I can speak and understand well but still would struggle to watch a fast-speaking film without (French) subtitles or read a novel without having to look up words.

It is absolutely possible to attain a good conversational level in a language you started as an adult. But you definitely can't do it on Duolingo. You need proper lessons and/or lots of exposure to the language and opportunities to speak it and listen to it.

I did a degree in languages, but don't get to speak them often these days. I find listening to podcasts good.

I'm using Duolingo for a new language I start learning for work but then no longer needed. I also have an occasional conversation class with a native. I'm really sceptical about the value of Duolingo if you're not also making time to learn the language some other way.

Allora, vai in Italia!!

(And just to be that annoying/ helpful person, it's "Vorrei parlare Italiano").

I'm a big believer in full immersion (she says, watching Deutschland 83 and googling all the useful words 😆)

Are you a member of any clubs or associations that might have Italian equivalents? (Like I dunno if you are involved with RSPB or Rotary or Guiding or choirs or Amnesty or Quakers or a particular sport, or interest etc etc etc?) Maybe you can make contact with an equivalent organisation and see if anyone there would like to do a Zoom language exchange or something.

You can get to that level for sure op! I have faith in you :)

Having spoken to people who used to teach Welsh, quite a few recommended watching children's television. It makes sense to start from the beginning, because children pick up language through early years TV and books, as well as conversation.

Also, having the confidence to try out speaking your second language as an adult is an enormous help. This is the bit that I struggle with! I find it easier to write in it, but I always check with Welsh speakers first, because the grammar is fiendishly difficult!

Good luck!

It’s comments like this which put people off learning languages. The wild obsession with 100% accurate grammar is a huge part of the reason why a large majority of monolingual British speakers of English either say they’re rubbish at languages, leading to people becoming so disillusioned that they switch into defence mode and say don’t see the point in learning another language.

There is research showing that it’s effectively not possible to become completely fluent in a language learned as an adult. This is good news. What IS possible is to be able to learn a language to a level whereby you can participate in a wide range of conversations and discussions, and understand a wide variety of spoken and written texts.

Living in the country is likely the easiest way, but not always possible, of course. I can highly recommend MeetUp language groups or other similar conversation groups as they will give you the chance to practise communicating with others.

Grammar learning plays a part, of course, and a decent grammar book with exercises is always a good complement to other forms of learning.

But it is a grave and sad mistake to fall into the trap of thinking that perfect grammar is a prerequisite for using a new language. It is not. It really is not.

People learn in different ways. Immersion is probably the best way short of "sleeping with a dictionary" (i.e. finding a partner who is a native speaker) but there are lots of fun ways of gaining exposure to another language.

If you find Duolingo and other formal courses are too rigid (and boring) try looking on YouTube for familiar programmes in different languages - e.g The Simpsons or Bob the Builder in German, Italian or whatever ... simple episodes that are easy to follow, visual and that use everyday language. The internet has thousands of radio stations, so have a foreign music channel on in the background and pick up vocabulary from the songs and from the news bulletins, weather forecasts, traffic reports etc. And of course, use any and every opportunity to speak with a native speaker if you bump into someone - e.g. a school mum, restaurant waiter, work colleague or neighbour.

Ah that’s really good. When I did my language degree, the English students had to teach themselves grammar before they could actually start learning the language. I’m teaching myself a second language now and this would be impossible for me to do on my own if I hadn’t already learned a language at university.

I also have no idea why anyone would vote 'unreasonable' here.

I learnt Spanish as an adult and would consider my self fluent but that's only because I went and lived there for 5 years. I started like you I suppose, practicing with Duolingo and reading online newspapers and trying to understands songs/films but after 2 years it was apparent that progress had totally plateaued and I wasn't going to get any further without investing serious time and money.

My mother learnt Spanish as an adult and took a GCSE evening course which she passed but she is a far way from fluent.

Having a lover who's a native speaker is supposed to be good for your accent too. Also, working as a sales person.

I have two languages I'm good at - one I was pretty fluent and because it's really uncommon for foreigners to learn it, when people met me they asked if I was born there, and on the phone they asked "is your mum in?" It would be in FSI category 4 (it's not on the list but is in the same language family as one on there).

The other I learned in classes and had some tourist visits but it's a lot closer to English. It's in the FSI category 1. I've never lived there though.

I am, without sounding boastful, pretty good at language learning and also at English grammar.

It depends on what do you mean by "learn" and (especially) "fluent".

Do you want to be able to have full, substantial adult conversations with people? For example, do you want to be able to say something like "I wouldn't have booked a return ticket if I'd known that I was going to meet all you great people and have such a wonderful time here, but I'm sorry, I have to go home now", with the conditional and the subjunctive correct? Or would it be sufficient to say "Thanks everyone, but I must leave now", with everything in the present indicative?

Do you want to be able to watch a gritty TV series that has a lot of swearing without subtitles? What about a rom-com? Or the TV news?

Do you want to be able to read a novel without looking up more than one word every 20 pages? How about every 5 pages? Every two paragraphs?

Basically, what's your endgame? And how committed are you to it, really?

I ask because I speak four foreign languages with differing degrees of fluency, all of them acquired by spending 2/5/10/20 years in another country. Acquiring true fluency — the kind where you don't have to think — is hard, and requires lots of time, whether you prefer to learn by osmosis or by bashing away at the grammar books. I am properly fluent in two of the four languages, but not for the ones where I spent less than 6 or 7 years in the country. Forcing yourself to do it in an English-speaking country is going to be hard. Getting a partner from that country is the best shortcut if you can't move there!

No. I've been learning a foreigner language for 10 years. I'm pretty good at it now, I can read novels, newspapers in that language. I can chat with people when I visit and it's hugely rewarding and very much appreciated. It's very well worth while and I thoroughly recommend it OP. But when native speakers of that language are in full flow, it's difficult so I would say I am fluent.

In answer to your question, not a chance! And certainly not with Duolingo! It's useful as a revision aid but if you really want to learn you must go to a class.

Do it!

I did get very very good before moving to the countries, but when I moved, it was just accelerated. I always think it depends how much time you have to put in. (Edited: that sounds like a brag, but I got 'good' through spending hours copying out verb tables etc - I'm definitely one of those people who has to work hard for my language skills!).

Try italki for classes. It's basically a database of teachers. I used to teach there and also b use it for learning ( had one student who had a 30 minute class every day to practise general conversations - with teachers on a kind of rotation.) All price ranges/ types of teachers etc. On meetup there are usually some language exchange groups in some towns/cities - I usually go to a few with the intention of finding one or 2 people to meet for coffee with etc.

Oh, also, for what it's worth, I don't think duolingo can take you too far beyond set phrases - I like to see how/ why the verbal/ whatever functions in that way, and understand the rules, rather than a random use.

I live in Austrian and I'm fluent in German. I'm also currently learning Norwegian.
I think it is very hard to become completely fluent unless you live in the country but it can be done.
My German was pretty good before I moved here but it was only once I started talkign to people every day that I really got to grips with the nuances of the languages and also the particular dialects they speak where I live. Dialects plural because there are a lot of differences between different valleys and even villages.

Immersion works the best so you need to try to replicate being immersed in the language when you are at home. That's what I am doing with Norwegian at the moment.
I am in various facebook groups about outdoor life in Norway and am therefore reading all the time. I watch all kinds of videos in those groups or on youtube. I watch things in Norwegian on Netflix. I started by having the subtitles on in English, progressed to having the subtitles on in Norwegian and now I'm getting to the point where I can watch without the subtitles.
I have read two books of short stories in Norwegian and now I'm about to start a full novel. I've read it in English before so I have an idea what it's about.
Speaking is harder and I do find when I go to Norway that there are a lot of different dialects so it is hard to understand and also as soon as they hear your accent they start speaking in English. I try to keep replying in Norwegian and sometimes I'll say I'm learning Norwegian so it would be really helpful if they could speak in Norwegian.

It also depends a lot on what type of learner you are. I'm very visual and I absolutely have to see words written down otherwise I can't retain them. It's no good for me to just try to listen and speak. I do a lot of grammar exercises and write a lot (I also did this in German).
I have a friend who picked up German just by listening to the radio all the time. He even had it on low level all through the night and claimed his brain continued to learn while asleep.

I am fluent in Spanish which I learned from scratch as an adult.
I would recommend watching films, YouTube videos and tv programmes, initially in Italian with English subtitles, then in Italian with Italian subtitles and eventually in Italian with no subtitles.
This helped me hugely.
There will be podcasts for students learning Italian which I’m sure would also be very helpful.
You definitely need to practise speaking, this is key.
Have a look at italki where you can arrange video calls with a teacher in your chosen language. The cost is very reasonable. You don’t have to have a lesson every week: if cost is an issue, you could opt for once a fortnight or even less frequently, whatever works for you.
Good luck, it requires a lot of effort, but can be done.

My problem is mixing languages. My dh is Dutch so I speak to his family in Dutch, my Spanish is very good because I lived there and now my French is good because I’ve learnt it through classes as I’m moving there.

The issue I have is switching between languages. I have to pause my brain and think about which language I’m about to use. Hard to explain. My dh learnt several languages as a child and doesn’t have this problem.

If you go there every year you probably already know more Italian than you think. Being in the country even for a holiday is awesome because you pick up vocabulary just walking around – ah, that’s the word for tanning salon, that’s X-ray department, that's frozen peas.

Practice is everything, like learning anything is. Watch the news in Italian. At first it will be jibber-jabber. Then you'll get the gist of it with the help of the pictures. Then you'll pick out words and phrases. Then you'll understand half of it and one day you'll realise you understood most of it.

Just don't expect it to be quick.