To think people who stay in abusive relationships long-term and expose their kids to it are complicit in harming them?

Well yes I agree, but there are often deep-seated reasons why these women are in, and stay in, those relationships. Unfortunately it's unrealistic to expect them to just shake off their trauma and act as though they are rational, well-balanced people with healthy boundaries. Hopefully many will get out, but lots can't really see that their dc are being damaged, as it feels like a normalway of living to them.

Same if you stay.

I always thought I'd protected my children from the abuse I was dealing with. Turns out, now my eldest is prime witness in the upcoming trial as shes 18, I didn't.

I feel like the worst parent in the world. HTH

Yet the narrative stays the same, and people forget that a victim can also be an abuser (in various ways) which is particularly grating when the child posts here as an adult and is told to “think of your poor mum” and “she did her best”.

You're right of course. Children should be left in abusive homes having the shit kicked out of them or watching their mum having the shit kicked out of her.

As one of those children, I have a great deal of anger towards my mother for not getting us out. She absolutely was complicit in our abuse. In many ways she became an abuser herself. She put far too much responsibility on me to protect my sister and to protect her. She asked things of me that should never be asked of a child.

I understand intellectually why it was hard for her to leave. She had the financial resources, but there were significant societal pressures telling her to look past the bruises and broken bones.

I tried to get her out repeatedly as an adult, but she refused to leave even with my help. She told me she was too afraid to change her life so I stopped asking. She died relatively young. There is zero doubt in my mind that the stress of her life was the underlying cause of the cancer that ravaged her body.

Women absolutely are victims, but the reality is that they are the only ones that can save themselves and their children. It isn’t fair, but it is a harsh reality. The mother acts as a shield that prevents the police and social services from intervening. Unless she decides enough is enough and wants her children out, they will continue to live in hell.

It’s doing a shit job at it.

But if you leave, they may kill you and/or the dc as punishment. It’s not unheard of. It’s in the news several times a year where a father kills the DC due to a split, or a man stalks and kills an ex in front of their children.

The law is trying to protect children.

Well the law in this patriarchal society isn’t known for being kind to women.

Ofc not always, but that is a departure from the main theme of the thread which is when one partner or parent is abusive, not both

That's not how the law sees it. It's considered child abuse to bring a child up in an abusive household. The child is a witness to their dad beating up their mum, may hear her being sexually assaulted, emotionally abused and so on.

The abuser may also use the children as a weapon or turn on them as well. Children learn to abuse (we have a big problem with son on mother violence), get into abusive relationships and suffer life long mental health problems.

And if you choose to leave them they may well kill your dc.

That's the reality of the situation, you're there and getting the abuse or you leave and fuck knows what will happen to your kids.

It's a horrendous choice and there's no real way to protect your dc until the courts and police start taking DV seriously.

Not always. Sometimes the abuse they suffer is lesser than what the kids go through, sometimes they join in with the abuse, sometimes they ignore the abuse their children suffer(for example, sexual abuse), sometimes they scapegoat the children.

It is a simplification and I do acknowledge that. There’s many grey areas but there are also many times mums do not act in the best interest of their dc and while it’s complex, pretending they have no responsibility isn’t helpful because, if you choose to stay with an abuser you may lose your dc. That’s the reality.

Your comparison to a burning house is entirely inappropriate and over simplifies the situation. A burning house isn’t going to pursue you across the country to attack you or through the courts. A burning house isn’t going show up one day and take your kids because it’s got 50/50 and you not know what is going to happen to your kids or if you will ever see them again.

If you’re stuck in a burning house you don’t make your dc stand with you, you would guide them to safety even if you couldn’t save yourself.

They’re not to blame for the abuser’s actions but they are responsible for protecting their dc and many parents do not act in the best interest of the dc.

I feel this way about my own mother, yes, absolutely.

I think there are definitely some thresholds where it stops being about the woman , and the wellbeing of the children is paramount.

However, we need to make it a lot easier and socially acceptable for women to leave before it gets to that point. There is still so much social stigma against single mums,being believed to begin with can be a battle in itself ,the courts and police are being used as tools by the abusers, help and support can be a postcode lottery, housing the same , shelters are underfunded and let’s face it, not particularly great to raise children in , especially long term. The list of issues is long, and while millions of women care, petition, volunteer , donate and campaign the powers that be still don’t really give a shit and there’s no desire for REAL change. Instead we get 25 more headlines about single mums on benefits , woman murdered by boyfriend/ex and so on.

It’s like people think that being abused removes all personal responsibility because nothing is your fault. We can’t control everyone but we can control our own actions and are responsible for them.

Then why are you holding one victim responsible for the actions of their abuser?
They aren’t abusing their children, they are trying to defect the abuse on to themselves to protect their children.

How much can an abused woman really protect her children within the home though? Won’t it just exacerbate the abuse towards her?

In theory I agree with you, but in reality the most dangerous time for a women in an abusive relationship is when she leaves/attempts to leave. Having children with someone, especially someone who would be granted access, essentially gives them a tool to continue the abuse through and it may actually be that to stay is the best case scenario for the children. It's an incredibly sad lose lose situation.

Sometimes with fatal results for the children.

This is a good point too. Sometimes the lesser of two evils is to stay in the situation because at least you know you're on hand to protect the kids when they're with him. If you separate then you have no control over what goes on when the kids are with him.

Well yes, but it really isn’t that simple.

When my dad left with us she ramped up her abuse, when we were forced by the courts to visit her she would physically harm us, take photos and tell SS we had arrived injured. She would report our dad for various imaginery crimes, tell people he was a peadophile. She was always believed, so we were removed from his care and forced to live with her. We were only eventually removed from her care again when after six months we were still bruised, dirty, not fed properly, but despite us repeatedly telling SS what has been happening we were placed in care rather than with our dad. We would have suffered less harm if he had stayed, which obviously isn’t his fault.