Person with MH problems should not be better off no working

Op do you have a clue what these MH problems are because some are very debilitating.

Very few people with any disability employ carers because they are bloody expensive and well beyond the means of either benefits or NMW. You clearly know fuck all about disability if you think we all get carers.

FWIIW I have a disability even you would struggle to argue with. I can barely walk, barely stand. I receive PIP. I have worked all my life, including as a person with disabilities. I have a decent but not extraordinary pension. And I would LOVE to be able to afford a carer / helper for even a few hours a week. If someone did my cleaning only, I would be in pig heaven. I can't afford it. So I struggle on.

Work it out for yourself - carers (as opposed to family who get paid fuck all for caring) cost AT LEAST the NMW. £12.21 per hour. Ten hours (which is very little) = £122.10 per week, plus employers costs (NI, insurance, payroll etc). The enhanced rate of PIP = £110.40 per week. So not enough to employ a carer for even minimal support. Throw in £77.05 per week mobility and you can just about cover the ten hours a week - but you have nothing left for aids, additional costs of disability, and forget about going out anywhere because you have to money for transport or a car.

But they are unlikely to have the costs associated with the disability if they have improved?

What I find interesting is that in other European countries the opposite is obvious.

op, you said that someone working a minimum wage job should not be worse off than someone not working due to MH issues and claiming benefits.

in many European countries to get state benefits you have to have paid in to the state insurance scheme. If you’ve not paid in you don’t get the benefits.

to them it is obvious that if you’ve paid in to the insurance you should get the benefits, and they are often more than full time minimum wage.

in the same way that you can buy accident and health insurance with your mortgage and if you become too disabled too work you get your mortgage paid off with the insurance.

Britain is one of the few countries where people believe that if you’ve paid into the national insurance scheme all your life (and the clue is in the name) then if you’ve become too ill to work either through physical or mental health reasons you should get virtually no support.

that’s why a lot of companies provide medical and health insurance because everyone knows disability benefits are shit because of attitudes like yours.

But, presumably, they get their money from the same sources as those with MH issues? And both physical or mental illnesses may or may not require care/support staff?

OK. So then essentially your problem is one of envy. Comparison is the thief of joy, you know. There's something very mean spirited about a large subset of the UK population - they don't care how poor they are, as long as someone else is worse off than they are. They love to kick down and never want to reach out with a hand up. It's a very unpleasant mindset.

Instead of griping about people with serious illnesses getting more money than others, why not put that energy into agitating for a better standard of living for everyone? And why not be thankful for what you have, i.e. not a serious mental illness?

BTW your persistence in thinking that if your friends with their serious MH issues were to find work they would lose their PIP speaks volumes. I wish the benefit bashers on MN would take the trouble to actually learn how the system works.

Why are these threads popping up all the time? It causes such division and nastiness.
I am unable to work due to MH and ND issues. What I claim in benefits is no where near what someone on NMW takes home. I live alone with no kids.
The people who have a lot in benefits usually have disabled kids and rent costs that UC mostly covers.
You can have their "free" money if you want but you have to have the disabilites too.

Exactly. they would need to be in a pretty high rent area or have kids to get any UC top up.

I would agree with you if you said that people on benefits shouldn't be better off than people working minimum wage jobs. I don't agree with the singling out of people with MH problems though. Yes there are a lot of folk using mental ill health as an excuse to not work however there are also people with severe and enduring mental illness whose lives genuinely are absolutely blighted by their mental illness and they'd never be able to hold down a job.

How awful and narrow-minded! I wouldn't want you as a friend, being judgmental over mental health is ugly, i hope you don't suffer or have to end up on benefits. How would you cope? rant over

You have to have quite severe mental health problems to get PIP.

My 18 year old has autism and claims PIP. He is better off working.

I have justified it: people on state benefits for disabilities OUTSIDE OF THEIR CONTROL shouldn’t be left to live a minimum wage style life.

As I’ve already mentioned, I also believe that NMW should be higher, such that people can live on it without being subsidised by the government.

People on minimum wage can, if they wish, upskill and progress through life into better paid jobs (in some cases, not all). They can also claim UC to top up their NMW income. Someone who is born with (or develops) a condition (be it physical or mental) that means they cannot work, has 0 opportunity to do this.

People who work can and do get PIP. Obviously not all, but some.

Also I don't know why you have it in for people with mental illness more than any other illness, smacks of you knowing shit all about it and having decided it "doesn't count" tbh.

So because shit companies can get away with paying people a starvation wage the government should also let people with health problems live at starvation level? Okay.

There’s no need to be clever, I only pointed out why it’s not that simple. It is a piss take that some working people need UC top ups. However the times that we are in also means business can’t just pay out ridiculous amounts in labour, if they did that costs of what they provide will need to go up. If it’s a small business barely turning a profit or only enough to make it worthwhile it would put them out of business equalling no jobs

Someone with the same circumstances wouldn’t get more in benefits than a full-time job. That is because of the UC taper rate and work allowance for anyone with LCW/LCWRA (or who has DC on the claim). PIP isn’t an out of work benefit. Neither is it a requirement to use benefits to pay for carers.

This one:

OK, let's do a little thought experiment here.
OP, imagine that prices are exactly the same as they are now. You are working a NMW job, but getting £5k in the bank. Your person with mental ill health is getting £6k in benefits.
You are both very comfortable.
Now do you still feel the same way about the situation?

Pip is nothing to do with whether you’re in work or not though. If their mental health illness is such that it’s impeding on their ability to live an independent life, chances are that they aren’t just “a bit down”

would you care to share the illnesses that have qualified your ‘friends’ for pip? And the rates they get.

Hypothetically though, let’s say you’re right and they lose their pip. We’re talking approximately £74/week if they get low rate daily living. A full time job would bring in far more than that. So would cover the loss in PIP and ESA. So they wouldn’t be worse off.

There's a benefit cap and benefits aren't that high. ESA is £90 a week. That's to pay all your bills. You may also have to contribute towards rent.

The OP hasn't said what benefits these 'friends' are on.

But they would still get PIP if they worked.

and they would still be entitled to some UC most likely so the chances of being off better not working are pretty slim