Most shops are just landfill waiting to happen.

If a wealth tax was remotely practical Labour would do it. They’re not, because it isn’t. I understand the desire to believe that there really is an easy solution ‘if only the political will was there’ but we are now in very complex waters and all low hanging fruit has been, or is being, picked.

It’s frustrating because these refrains are continually challenged on here yet pop up time and time again.

I never see anything in charity shops that fits my needs. I look a lot (my town is full of them).
I might be on a low income but I am allowed to be picky too.

I'm a scrounger, love.

And I think we've crossed paths frequently. A rose by any other name?

Hmm.

If you are on a low income isn’t it’s simply practical not to buy anything new when there have never been more second hand choices available?

What is your occupation out of interest?

The majority of respected economists do not support a wealth tax for a number of very good reasons. It’s sixth form politics which would not deliver in reality.

Yes I agree we have reached the end stage of capitalism and it’s very ugly. It’s bred individualism and entitlement - virtually everyone feels entitled to take, take, take from the country, whether that’s benefits or cheap labour subsidised by the taxpayer, but very few people feel they have any obligation to give back.

The only way forward is radical change but nobody will want the reality of it, as the freebies will dry up and everyone would be expected to make an equal contribution. People are too selfish and want to delude themselves that socialism can work or that capitalism is the only fair way.

No, not at all. I know some people who are totally addicted to shopping on Vinted, and I do look in charity shops for craft supplies or clothing that is made from a nice fabric that I can use in my crafts too.
But clothing wise, I live in black and grey and wear simple items. Primark meets my needs fine. I use cash and avoid online shopping as I also used to be very addicted to it, and I can not afford to be nowadays😅
I am more taking umbrage with the comment that people on benefits should not expect to buy anything new.

@DramaDivaDi
@SonoPazziQuestiRomani

The expectation that a person on a low income should be able to dress themselves and their children in new clothing is not demanding a ‘right to shite’. There is a world of difference between someone with £200 to spend buying 20 items instead of 2 ethically produced items then someone who only has £20 to spend. Of course there will be a compromise on quality at that price but at least there is a choice then between new and second hand, rather than no choice.

It’s a lot easier to shop ethically when you have the funding to give you choices.

FWIW I am totally behind the ethical argument but I don’t like the assumption that everyone who buys cheaply does so because they lack consideration or morals.

@XenoBitch

I suspect the poster you're responding to is not engaging in good faith.

Why do you think second hand clothing are ‘cast offs’? Do you generally sneer at people who buy things from charity shops or Vinted?

You're missing the point that end stage capitalism is a multi-faceted cluster fuck and the discussion is about how we address the worst aspects of consumerism without collapsing the economy.

You've picked on a particular class of consumer and had a dig at benefit claimants. Trust me, their income doesn't stretch to luxuries, and genuine wealth tax would help level the playing field for everyone. I also remind you that a number of those in receipt of benefits are working, and their wages need to be topped up to meet the ever rising costs of living because corporations are subsidised by the government, rather than paying living wages.

I know people like to think "benefit claimants" are the source of all societal ills, but blaming them for participating in capitalism is a bit of a stretch when it's the only system we've got.

I also feel 🙄 when I see benefit claimants on here saying ‘but why shouldn’t I buy new clothes? Why shouldn’t I have a holiday? Why shouldn’t my child get a new iPad for Christmas?’ - while demanding working people who can’t actually afford any of that for themselves pay more tax toward their welfare

No need for that. Like I said in a PP, I shop in Primark as I know what fits and I can feel the fabric first. it is also cheap for something new, and I wear stuff until it falls apart. Whatever "fast fashion" is, is not something subscribe to. Yet I (and others on low income) are expected to have your cast offs and be happy with it. No thanks.

Who do you think the ‘big businesses’ are catering to?

Yup I love that shop. They have loads of paper instead of plastic type items. They’re probably pretty sustainable compared to most places.

Am I wrong?

An ocean is made of drops.

Did we really have to shoe horn benefit bashing into this thread? Is it a new national sport or something? 🙄

Agree completely. To preserve one person’s ’choice and dignity’, another person’s has to be compromised in the form of low wages.

There is nothing undignified or oppressive about buying second hand clothing, eating a simple and cheap but nutritious diet, or doing free enjoyable things.

Somebody posted in our town Facebook group earlier asking for free food as they ‘only have £20 left for the week’. Somebody responded with a practical list of things they could buy from the local supermarket which would stretch the £20 to last the week, they even priced each item. The OP had an absolute fit along the lines of ‘why should I live off potatoes?’. She seemed to think it was a genuine human right to live off fairly expensive convenience food and red meat.

I also feel 🙄 when I see benefit claimants on here saying ‘but why shouldn’t I buy new clothes? Why shouldn’t I have a holiday? Why shouldn’t my child get a new iPad for Christmas?’ - while demanding working people who can’t actually afford any of that for themselves pay more tax toward their welfare.

Quite.

@ShinyAppleDreamingOfTheSea How else do you propose that people on low incomes get "the size and design that they want" without compromising on quality or environmental standards? As shown by many of the replies on this thread, many people (actoss the income spectrum) would rather compromise on quality over quantity.

Well it sort of is. It's why factory farming exists.
What many people regard as a 'fair' price is one which necessitates serious compromises in terms of quality, welfare (human and animal), and/or the environment.

That’s not what I said and you know it .

Great idea!

You might want to have a look at C40 cities agenda clothing.

one of the biggest treats of the year was their new Easter dresses for church on Easter Sunday (handmade on a sewing machine by her mum of course). So I guess that’s been around as a tradition longer than people might realise!

I am guessing though that your mum's new dress was a generic summer dress which would be worn for the first time on Easter Sunday and then worn many more times over the rest of the summer and in autumn with a cardi on the top! The problem is the promotion of Easter specific clothing with bunnies or whatever which people do not want to wear again in May July or September.

OP I can’t argue with the fact that there is way too much poor quality plastic that from China etc. around these days and I absolutely hate what fast fashion has done to the clothing industry. I don’t buy from places like Temu or Shein on principle but I know a lot of people who do. So I am generally in agreement that things should change. I’d like to see fast fashion taxed to oblivion and I’d also be fine with high import type charges for non U.K. made goods for those who really really want them. I agree with you about plastic bags, I’m actually one of those people who never brings a bag and pays the plastic bag tax for convenience (partly due to suspected ADHD and bipolar disorder my executive functioning isn’t always the best). I’m glad I have the option honestly, however I am fully confident that I would adapt if it became a matter of pay more significant money for a new cloth bag every time I go to the supermarket. I probably would end up doing that occasionally but I think 95 percent of the time I’d manage if I really had to. I agree there is a weird sudden emphasis on shopping for celebrations and holidays and holiday related decor etc. Though I do love my Christmas baubles and I also saw the thread about new Easter clothes and thought “how ridiculous” then remembered my mum telling me that as a child in the 1950s one of the biggest treats of the year was their new Easter dresses for church on Easter Sunday (handmade on a sewing machine by her mum of course). So I guess that’s been around as a tradition longer than people might realise!

But your vision of society is a bit too far for me in terms of being austere and utilitarian for me personally. I place high value on things being aesthetically pleasing, more than nearly anyone else I know. But it genuinely matters to me in my everyday life and the quality of my life. And also things like the clothes I wear and homeware/decor/furniture I see as an expression of my creativity/artistic nature. I’d hate to be limited to “well you only really @need one kind of plate, it’s basic and white and you can eat off it so that’s what’s available in the shops, all of the shops”. I feel like human beings want a certain amount of choice (I do agree sometimes it’s ridiculous and overwhelming/paralysing too like the aisle of various Oreo products someone mentioned). We’re also driven to shop as part of gathering resources basically. So shopping as a thing isn’t just going to go away. But there is a happy medium! I love the sort of little stores you mention to be honest 🤣 But I choose my purchases very carefully and I tend to invest in high quality long lasting items that I really love.

Think all repairs including cars and boilers should be exempt from VAT.