To find this outlook irritating? Ageing and looks

You look better with no makeup! Wow I wish that was the case with me. As I've become older I do appreciate a wider range of beauty. And I also look back at actresses that I used to consider plain when I was younger and now I look at the same actresses and think actually she was very beautiful.

but I do feel a bit sad that some younger women can't see that they are beautiful just as they are.

And I don't mean beautiful in the sense of looking perfect but in the holistic sense.

When you're younger, you are filled with hope for the future, dreams, ambition, fun (speaking generally of course). These are the things that are beautiful. Not having perfect eyebrows.

And also older women having a go at younger women for wanting to enhance or alter their appearance. They can be bitter or jealous.

I'm 50. I haven't aged badly (so far) and people often tell me I kook younger but I don't care about that. I know I don't look younger, I look like a 50 year old who has taken reasonably good care of themselves and who has been relatively lucky genetically.
I'm not bitter or jealous of younger women. I've had my time being younger but I do feel a bit sad that some younger women can't see that they are beautiful just as they are.

A great deal of that pressure comes from other women though.

That is true... but it also comes from men and their expectations of what women will look like. I've certainly been criticised for my appearance by several men in a way I've never been criticised by a single woman. In fact, I think I've only ever been criticised by a woman once and I could see at the time that that was more to do with her own insecurities rather than anything to do with me.

I have been thinking increasingly for a while how I miss women on television and in film looking different, looking like normal (albeit still conventionally attractive) women.

Me too. Many women seem to have adopted a very narrow version of 'attractive' or 'beautiful' and that's a shame because beauty really is in the eye of the beholder. People's flaws and imperfections are part of what make them who they are, and we shouldn't all be aiming to look like an airbrushed or AI version of 'beautiful'

I think its very normal to feel better when you look better.

I agree with this but 'better' is also subjective. To me, people look 'better' when they eat well, are healthy, their skin has a natural glow, they've had a haircut and are wearing something that suits them. For others 'better' is plump lips, no lines/wrinkles etc.

I think I look better with no make up on. I'm sure others would disagree! 🤣

I've worked in beauty for forty years and if all women give up caring how they look I'm out of a job!
Age has its own beauty. It is a privelage and I personally have lost friends and family too early.
I do think we can be our worst enemy though. Constant comparing with images of celebrities and models leads to dissatisfaction. I'd like to look like Jerry Hall but I don't!
Good teeth, clear skin and a super haircut can work wonders.
My advice is don't smoke, drink little or nothing and wear spf.
Colour cosmetics can really change a person's face. A make up lesson will be invaluable. I love lipstick, I think it can knock years off if it's the right colour for you. I turn sixty this year. I'm still working and have no issue with my age. However I don't really have wrinkles as I followed my own advice.

It’s good to have perspective but yes we should be allowed to care about it.
Just not to the point of being miserable, what a waste of life.
It annoys me more when women talk about being past it in their 30s and 40s, how 20s are the most attractive. I feel better than I ever have mid 40s

There's nothing wrong with both trying to look your best AND accepting you are aging. The two are not mutually exclusive. Women can be beautiful (or not) at any age, but everyone who wishes to can try to look the best they can for the age they are. Personally I find more natural looks more attractive at any age.

There is a balance to be struck I think.

There is a total obsession with looks at the moment and that is very unhealthy and such a waste of life. By all means try to lose a bit of weight (that is just a sensible healthy thing to do), use a face cream, have a nice haircut - but beyond that we are who we are .... looks, age etc. ..... and need to embrace that.

I am far from the first flush of youth and simply accept the changes that have come my way. But then I do not share the value judgment that youthful = beautiful, and older = ugly. I am a retired photographer and some of my best portraits are of older people.

So your content to accept wrinkly skin as you age but not content to accept your skin and appearance as it is? I am the same I wear makeup etc but I dont fully understand when people say they want to accept nature but then still go about changing nature.

I don’t think aging looks bad in other people at all and think many people look good at all ages. Some people look better as they age. The problem is when it comes to myself. I associate aging with getting less physically able and dying. The physical signs of your own mortality are a bit depressing.

Botox is smoothing the skin by removing the lines that are created by movement of muscle. Lines that are visible when the skin is 'at rest' wont be affected by botox- like you say only creams and derma treatments will have an affect on actual lines. Deep lines can only be lessened with filler not botox.

Well there is the fact that aging IS a privilege denied to many, and we shouldn’t fear wrinkles and grey hairs and we should learn to embrace them.
however, it is still perfectly correct to want to look good, and feel good within our skins. I will not have Botox, I’m fully content to accept wrinkly skin as I age, but I will also be having facials, and wearing make up because I still want to look beautiful. It’s not an either/or here. It is both - you don’t have to give up caring how you look just because your older, but also embrace your beautiful skin

What?

I don’t think it’s a good thing when it’s said with sneering and contempt. And yanbu to be irritated by it. But YABU if you think it shouldn’t be said. It’s reality!

Being alive and wrinkly is better than the alternative. I love to hear from wise women who remind me not to be so vain; that it hurts me and me only. I also love that those wise women promote a culture that says ‘you are being pushed a lie that says your value comes from how you look’. I wonder if that irritates you because you have bought into the lie to some extent and you don’t want to experience the cognitive dissonance that goes with all that? I’m not saying this judgily - I have those battles in myself and think all women do, as we’ve been brought up thinking we need to look our best, it’s so hard to let those narratives go but if we can it can set us free. I hope women never stop offering others that perspective. Of course go ahead and use whatever treatments you want, but don’t silence wisdom.

I’m 35 and don’t like my fine lines, but I’m not getting Botox. Microdermabrasion keeps my skin very smooth and fresh and makes the lines less noticeable, and then some good quality makeup makes it look even better.
I’ll keep going with the topical treatments for as long as I can. They work for me and I don’t have the worry of Botox and fillers going wrong.

I don't know. I wouldn't care to determine people's motivation by one post on a forum.

There's a massive difference between good work and what you're talking about. Good cosmetic work is undetectable.

I agree with this 100%

And also older women having a go at younger women for wanting to enhance or alter their appearance. They can be bitter or jealous.

Yes, OP, someone does always come along and say that because it’s actually quite an important point to make. Changing your mindset can be healthier (and is certainly cheaper) than changing your face with endless tweakments.

As PPs have pointed out, ageing is not optional, but anti-ageing treatments are, and people’s opinions on those vary - so to unilaterally label them as ‘improvements’ could also be considered an irritating outlook.

Having said that, these threads always seem to me to be fairly balanced. Yes, there’s some wider, often interesting, discussion around how women are expected to present themselves. But equally, I’ve never seen anyone berated for wanting to give themselves a boost or explore their options - there’s always plenty of support and advice.

It's about balance surely. Of course, noone should be obsessed to the point of neurosis about their looks but equally, I think the responses of "just be glad you arent dead" are really minimising. I wonder if those people would ever say that to a friend? - "oh your dog has just been put down?- well at least you arent dead", "oh you had an upsetting thing happen at work?- at least you arent dead", "oh, you had an argument with your husband?- at least you arent dead" etc. By this rationale, none of us are allowed to express sad feelings about anything at all.

There are much kinder ways to support someone in exploring why the loss of their looks might be upsetting to them than trotting out the "at least you arent dead" line. The thing is- it's often not solely about appearance, it's a physical sign of ageing and that brings up all sorts of fears for people about their own mortality and the changes of time. Sometimes when these are explored and reflected on, the grip on wanting to look younger can be more easily let go.

I would say makeup is used to change appearance. Darker longer eyelashes, increased eyebrows, pinker cheeks, better overall skin colour, less undereye darkness, redder lips, the list goes on. Botox doesnt drastically change anything it just decreases how visible lines are in the skin when you move a certain facial muscle. You still look like you just smoother.

Internalised misogyny. Older women hold wisdom. For some, that's unacceptable. Far better to diminish older women as "hags" or "crones" or use menopausal as an insult.
The ageism on these threads is sometimes awful. I find that sad.

Yeah I hear what you're saying , I just think personally that adding makeup enhances how you look- getting Botox age 33 is just trying to change your appearance because it's not acceptable to start having a few lines .

There is a cohort of women who love to tell other women off for caring about their appearance in the name of feminism. Interestingly its almost always targeted towards older women. There's no little irony in the implication that wanting to look nice is no longer necessary once you've passed the optimum age to interest men. After which you no longer need to care, so should fade into invisibility, and simply be glad to be still breathing in and out.

Ageing reminds us of death. It’s too simplistic to set it up as one versus the other.