For refusing to go to Church?

A Smurf can’t be a Smurfette either. What’s your point?

not only that but houses of religion were used to "store" spare women.

no but he could be a deacon and do all the same stuff and addtionally he could become a priest.

@Marsyoungersister

You understand though surely that in the UK, for example, Christianity and specifically the gender roles within it, were a key influence on secular laws around marriage, divorce and property rights that traditionally gave much more power to men than women? Coverture for example.

@godmum56 so churches and religion have zero to do with societal expectation?

I didn't say that.

The person who started this discussion claimed that (in their opinion)

Most of them - a womans place is to serve and be the house slave for a man
Christianity, islam, all the same broken down
She is 2nd to a man, not an equal, seen as an incubator

I disagreed with that and pointed out that religious bodies don't make secular laws that disadvantage women.

That applies in reverse.

A man could not be a Deaconess.

so churches and religion have zero to do with societal expectation?

So, moving back to religion.
My great aunt was a Deaconess in the Church of England.
She assisted in administering sacraments, leading public worship, and offering pastoral care to the congregation, including visits to the sick and housebound. She also played a role in preaching and teaching, preparing people for sacraments, and leading prayer groups and Bible studies.
So it would not be fair to say she was of less value than the Vicar because she wasn't ordained, she just had slightly different ( and equally valuable) roles.

But she didn’t have the option to have the same role as the vicar - because of her gender! You can’t claim she was equally valued in her “slightly different” role when she was actively prevented from taking the alternative role because she was female.

@Apricotfuzz

God is whatever is the locus of your values - your decision making, your North star... if God does not sit in that throne, something else does. Often money, or pleasure

Can you appreciate and believe that for some people the ‘locus of their values’ and the driving force behind their decision making is a desire to be a kind, loving person who cares for others and that they don’t need to believe in God for that to be true?

@godmum56 it wasn't actually illegal for women to have bank accounts and mortgages. The male dominated banks would not allow it!

Maybe that is true but the inequality wasn't due to religious factors.

Re mining - again, nothing to do with religious issues.

https://www.mrsl.co.uk/about-us/knowledge-hub/women-mining-then-now

it wasn't actually illegal for women to have bank accounts and mortgages. The male dominated banks would not allow it!
hth

@Ineedcoffee2021 how about you name a religion where a woman is equal

I think you need to be more specific about what you mean by "equal". Many people understand "equal" to mean "interchangeable" which is incorrect.

Just because members of a particular religion are not fulfilling the same duties as the opposite sex doesn't mean they are "unequal".

Too many people have bought into the silly feminist notion that women should be able to do anything a man can do - they can't.
Men will always have a physical advantage over women, as most men are bigger and stronger than most women (unless you want to include Danny De Vito v Venus Williams)

If a woman is built like a brick outhouse and she can go down the mines and shovel coal like a man, then she should be allowed to do that (and be paid the same).
However, I doubt many women would sign up for type of employment.

Women in UK have been discriminated against in various sectors of society over the years. However, this was not due to religion but to laws made by Parliament.

As late as the early 1970's no woman in UK was allowed to take out a mortgage unless a male guarantor co-signed the loan. So the law was saying effectively that women were a bad risk and too stupid to manage their own money. This was despite women managing their own housekeeping budgets for years !

The Race Relations Act was passed in1968 (followed by the Equality Act 2010) but the Sex Discrimination Act wasn't passed until 1975 (also incorporated into the Equality Act). So parliament saw fit to pass a law making one race equal to another before they passed a law making one sex equal to another.
Religion had nothing to do with this.

So, moving back to religion.
My great aunt was a Deaconess in the Church of England.
She assisted in administering sacraments, leading public worship, and offering pastoral care to the congregation, including visits to the sick and housebound. She also played a role in preaching and teaching, preparing people for sacraments, and leading prayer groups and Bible studies.

So it would not be fair to say she was of less value than the Vicar because she wasn't ordained, she just had slightly different ( and equally valuable) roles.

HTH

How? my viewpoints are mine, how I see religion
Did i demand others see it the same? no

Most of them - a womans place is to serve and be the house slave for a man
Christianity, islam, all the same broken down
She is 2nd to a man, not an equal, seen as an incubator

how about you name a religion where a woman is equal

For what it's worth I don't think there is anything wrong with attending church as a non-believer in of itself. Sometimes people are exploring their faith, sometimes you're visiting someone and it makes sense to go along with their routine if you're comfortable. All fine and good.

The issue here is that you need to set realistic expectations with MIL.

Personally, I'd go at Christmas if we were spending Christmas with them. It can be a nice, Christmassy thing to do, even if it is a bit dotty. More than that is unreasonable and I think you are right to refuse. (And Christmas is your choice - no criticism intended there. I'm just saying what I would do).

I'm guessing it's 2. That either her or, more likely her fiance keep saying 'maybe' or the fiance is making out he can't go to church because OP doesn't want to go, instead of having to tell his mum he doesn't want to go to church either.

@Ineedcoffee2021

Wow!

So many negative and wrong viewpoints I almost don't know where to start.

blame religion for their opinions that may not sit well with most people like women belong in the home,

I am curious to know what religion you think advocates this ??

4 years of this? Every Sunday? And this woman still hasn’t got the message?

either the op is massively exaggerating
or
she and her husband have the backbone of a jellyfish and are unable to string a coherent sentence together
or
The MIL has a very serious cognitive problem

I am going to guess it’s number 1

Just ask her

it would mean a lot to me if you didn’t go to church on Sunday, as an atheist it’s important and I hope you can respect my wish for you not to attend church

You mean you don’t want a discussion with someone who won’t concede to your version of atheism - which is basically just “Oh, you don’t properly understand god”.

but when your child has to go somewhere awful it's funny how it makes people reflect on their choices, just speaking for people I know who are finding themselves in that situation.

We (Me, DH and our 15yo DD) chose homeschooling over the local religious schools when it came to pulling her out of public due to bullying

The local religious schools didnt even make our radar cos she didnt want to, in her words, waste her time in religious lessons and we didnt want to spend good money that will eventually make its way back to the church connected to the school

'god' and religion to me

Man made concepts used to control people by fear, hate and intimidation - aka do xyz or go to hell

An organization that protects pedophiles and sees women as nothing more than house slaves and breeding stock

A concept used to bully and belittle those who dont believe

An easy out for people who cant stand on their own 2 feet and blame religion for their opinions that may not sit well with most people like women belong in the home, abortion is wrong, being gay is wrong type opinions

but when your child has to go somewhere awful it's funny how it makes people reflect on their choices, just speaking for people I know who are finding themselves in that situation.

You realise they aren’t reflecting on their belief in a Catholic God but in whether they should have been more on the ball about gaming the system?