To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

if you assert something as fact you back it up with links.

otherwise it’s just obvious you are talking out of your arse.

Although it's preferable for some mums (who, by their own admission, can't cope with being with their babies full time); or a necessity for those who need to work and have have no choice, its obvious that it's far from ideal to have small babies and toddlers doing long days in nursery before the age of 2.5 (when they start to meaningfully socialise). Even then, toddlers don't need to be there for 9 or 10 hour days - just a few hours a few days per week is more than enough.

The govt obviously won't focus on what's best for babies because they just want mums and dads all working full/ time and paying tax.

Having said this, babies will survive. At least they're physically safe and it's obviously a life-saver for children who might otherwise be at home, but being neglected or abused. Those in constant childcare know no different, so it is what it is for them.

It does seem like we're facing some kind of escalating teenage mental health crisis in recent years though. Who knows why - perhaps a combination of social media / screen time, combined with the trend for children to spend the most part of their very early years in institutional settings? Families increasingly rushed, under pressure and no time for each other?

Years ago, some families used to think nothing of sending children to boarding school aged 7. Now we know about 'boarding school syndrome' and the long-term impacts. Or when wealthy Victorian families would leave their children with the nanny all day - the children would just be 'presented' to the parents for a couple of hours in the evening. Easy for the parents. Not so great for the children. But again, they had no frame of reference, no other experience to compare to.

It's a controversial subject and obviously, a lot of families have no choice. But I think the impact on babies needs properly researching. I'm not talking about toddlers in for a few days a week. I mean 12 well old babies, doing ten hour days, 5 days per week. Surely this is too much.

Mine went to nursery from four and five months. And I didn’t even have to return to work! They’re now 22 and 19, unscathed, and all bonded just fine. Never a seconds guilt.

I think it’s hard to say when you haven’t experienced both staying home with your DC and being a working mum.

I know when I was little, I loved my child care center. There were fun activities, different toys than I had at home, arts and crafts to do, and I had good friends I liked to play with.

Some SAHP are superstars and manage to give their kids all of that at home, which I applaud. Personally, with the other responsibilities I have on my plate and my social ineptitude, I struggle with it. But I would also really be sad if most of the time when DD was little was spent away from me… So I send her to school two days a week, in addition to two hours a day at my gym or church’s child care center. She seems to enjoy it a lot, and she’s always making new friends (crazy little extravert!)

At home, we do some reading, writing, and maths, artwork (when I have time to set and clean it all up for her), chores (or “home economics”), gardening, and occasionally we’ll get to the playground, museum, family fun center, library, etc… but a lot of chores

I think the quality of the childcare being key is a no brainer. I think we can all agree on that! Even without peer reviewed studies.

I'm at a senior level and I can be very flexible in the sense that I can manage my own diary, WFH and as long as what needs to be done is done and I have no meetings that afternoon, I can pick up early from nursery if it is my day to pick up.

But if I went part time, I would lose that flexibility and I wouldn't progress any further. Unfortunately, that's just how it is right now.

Ok. It's no skin off my nose either way.

I felt no guilt putting my firstborn in nursery, he thrived on the stimulation and I needed to work to get the mortgage we wanted.

However when he started school he hated after school club and then I felt guilty, as others were going home and mine had to endure the club. When I stopped working he was so much happier and I knew it was the right decision for us.

Second child will be going to pre-school 2 days a week when she turns 3. I love being home with her, and she's a much calmer, more attached child personality wise. I'm sure she'll cry and cling some days, but it's better she gets used to it gradually rather than the shock of starting school.

It's not work, though?

The after school care that my kids receive is basically the choice between:

Playing outside
Arts and crafts
Lego
Organised games/sports
From 5:30, TV is an option

It's not really very different to what they would do at home

I'm not the poster who mentioned the research, but this medium post does a good job of summarising current childcare research - and also links to the original studies, so you can verify their conclusions if you want to https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

Every bit of research I've read though says 1-1 care (doesn't have to be a parent - could be a relative or a nanny etc) is best for children under age 3, then nursery is better after age 3, but the ideal is half days.

Btw I work full time and have used full time 8am-6pm childcare after mat leave, so I don't follow this rule - but that's what the research I've read always seems to say is best.

Never felt guilty at all. Both mine went to nursery FT at around 1 year and both loved it.

I'm sorry I did my degree a while ago now and can't quote references off hand (and I've not got the time or inclination to dust off the textbooks). You can use google to find peer-reviewed articles though (in addition to all the rubbish I agree is out there). It used to be called Google Scholar, but again I haven't had cause to use it for a while!

The very mixed research that usually says the quality of nursery is key. Some research is also American and their daycares are quite different to nurseries.

Well obviously if you make false claims I’m not spending my time googling to prove them false. That’s not how debate works. In the absence of other evidence, we’ll just all assume you’re wrong

I got 30 free hours so my son went 8am to 6pm on my working days and it cost nothing....I paid for the other 2 mornings and felt he benefited from routine, socialising, school wasn't a big shock plus it gave me 2 mornings to do housework then we had 2 afternoons together it was a great time and cost me less than wraparound does now!

And anyone who needs to search for anything 😂

It's Mumsnet, not my thesis. I don't have to do the source work for you.

ah, google, so often suggested by someone who has no research to back up their point 😂

I was devastated leaving mine. Would have loved to have been able to stay at home or work part time. I think it was just hormonal and I didn’t cope very well. My children were absolutely fine. I have been promoted twice since then and my children are older teens now and they are very proud of me. So it was the right decision for the 3 of us (I’m a single parent) but for me personally I found it very hard. But I don’t think it’s inferior for the children. I think they have a different experience to what they have at home and gain different skills from it.

I don't feel guilty at all. We all have to pay bills and do what we have to do to survive. My children are teens now and I'm lucky of they get out of bed during the holidays by 11 <no doubt someone on MN is going to jump on me for that> but they do see me working and both of them want more. I always thought I would love to be a stay at home mum, the three of us did covid while I was on furlough and it turns out this doesn't work for me.

Nursery times were the best times for me. Full day childcare, meals included, packes full of activities and I was working full time in the office with adult people, no school holidays to deal with. I am also crap at crafts, so at least I knew someone was helping them make a necklace out of pasta or paint a paper plate and that someone didnt have to be me.
Now its a mess of school holidaysl every 5 minutes, work from home, pick up in the middle of my working day, rush home, work till midnight, kids moaning they are bored all the time and me fighting them to do home work.
Nursery times were really the best times.

Zero guilt.

The research states that good quality childcare is key. The nursery we used was (and still is) incredible.

@crumblingschools

It is a pity though that careers can be wrecked if you go part-time. Interestingly DH is actively demonstrating/promoting in his firm that senior level roles can be part-time and no impact of maternity/shared leave. So people who have had career breaks/work part-time are applying/working towards those roles, which they previously thought were (and they were under previous management) out of reach.

Fair. I think its true that at very senior levels there is more flexibility in certain careers and some progressive companies are actively promoting this. Unfortunately, though, the time when you need to really lean into your career tends to coincide with the time you are having children and the time they are very young and need hands-on care. Going part time in your 50s when you've built a reputation is great but its too late to give you the ability to play a more hands-on role at home more of the week. And taking several years off work when you're in your late 20s/30s is often career-destroying or significantly career-limiting for women.

I hope this is changing but if you are career-oriented then opting out of the workforce at this point in your life is a risky move for many women. And of course for a lot of women it's simply not possible.

Personal choice, I didn't want to use nursery whilst she was very young. I had six months off work then went back three days a week but DD was looked after by her Dad two days (we both have flexible jobs) and her Grandma for the other day. That went on until she was about two and a half. Then she went to nursery two afternoons a week because I think by that point she benefitted from the social time with the other kids. It was always a priority for me that she have the most time with her family. But I get many don't have that option and I understand people's reasons for nursery use.