Page 27 | To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

Kanfuzed123 · 2025-04-10T16:47:19+00:00

Inspired by the childcare eating a £45k salary and the anti nursery sentiment from a few posters on there as being inferior for a child. anyone else not feel in the slightest guilty that there kids are in nursery and have been post maternity leave? yeah when they cried at drop off was rough and I called into the check out they were but that soon settled. They do lovely events for the parents and upload lots of amazing activities they do, they’ve made fantastic friends. I could’ve reduced my hours but I didn’t, we could’ve maybe managed on one salary (glad we didn’t when rates shot up) but I went back FT when dc 1 was 15 months (used annual leave for part time before then) and dc2 was 13 months. anyone else just not feel guilty? I like the lifestyle we can get when we’re working, especially since the 15 funded hrs and now 30, it’s so affordable. (Eldest is in school and youngest now has the 30 hrs) bill is less than £400 a month inc club etc. I like having something else to focus on too. im not alone or am I?

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:40

MossLover · 10/04/2025 21:31

I think it’s less tiring/more relaxing to be at home with your parents, rather than be stuck in the same room with people you have to be social with (whereas at home you can have alone time, and with your family, they’re generally accepting of your social interaction regardless if it’s “normal” or not… if that makes sense?) My DD (age 3, aknots 4) always seems more tired the longer she’s been at school when I come to collect her.

but I might just have this opinion because I have AuDHD and masking is tiring. Perhaps an NT/extraverted kid would be happier being at school longer

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welll I think it depends because on the days me and my kids are up early on a day out (or adventure) as they call them, exploring and what not, they are bloody shattered. Same when we do our clubs. I think the tiredness will come from a day of physical and mental activity compared to relaxing and chilling watching the television (not saying that is what you do with your children of course)

but I don’t really buy into the logic that long days outside of the house are terrible for young children. They are fed, entertained, cared for, given opportunity to rest etc with a trusted adult those are the same things that occur at home are they not?

OP posts:

NuffSaidSam · 10/04/2025 21:36

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:21

Doctorate or undergraduate?

not sure I’d place too much stock in the research skills of an undergrad dissertation

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It wasn't the topic of my dissertation or thesis. Just something we covered along the way. The research isn't mine! I've no skin in the game. Just read it, wrote about it and quoted it! It's out there to be read if you want is my only point. Nothing more than that. So, my research skills lacking or otherwise are not relevant.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:36

MsCactus · 10/04/2025 21:28

Yes so 1-1 care is best/ideal. Then after that 1-2 care is second best, 1-3 care third etc. The studies show that having one consistent carer is also really important - so relatives who are consistently in their lives better than nanny, nanny better than childminder (because of ratios), nursery with a rotation of staff and multiple kids in one room that change every day = the hardest for kids to adjust to.

As I said I use full time childcare and I've used nurseries age 1, so I think they're necessary. But that's basically what the research shows - and over age 3 is when kids start seeing a benefit from going to nurseries and group childcare.

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these studies seem to be sub par, as it’s beyond obvious that a child will do better in a 1-1 environment.

nursery settings have key workers, so for instance my child has a key worker that is in on all the days my child is, they also have a secondary one that they are used to and bonded with in the event of illness. They spend time with that individual every day so become known to them. I believe this is common practice.

yes an older child will benefit from the social aspect more as they are capable of active play with other children then and they actively start learning the soft skills that they’ll build upon in school.

id also be interested to see the parameters of what they are defining as ‘better’ and how that is being measured, and against what control group as emotional responses are too unreliable to draw definitive conclusions, they are also too difficult to even measure ethically, especially in a child.

OP posts:

LuluDelulu · 10/04/2025 21:34

I think we can all agree that long days in nursery are clearly not ideal for most young children. Based both on the research and common sense. Shorter hours past the age of 2, sure. But yeah, spending only the weekend with your kids and a couple of hours each evening is never going to be best for babies and young children. This is obvious to anyone with any critical thinking skills whatsoever, before even looking at the research. However, most of us don’t have a choice so hey, guilt is a pointless emotion.

MossLover · 10/04/2025 21:31

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:24

To live a comfortable life? Re the ‘long day’ The child would be awake regardless. Does it matter where exactly they are?

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I think it’s less tiring/more relaxing to be at home with your parents, rather than be stuck in the same room with people you have to be social with (whereas at home you can have alone time, and with your family, they’re generally accepting of your social interaction regardless if it’s “normal” or not… if that makes sense?) My DD (age 3, aknots 4) always seems more tired the longer she’s been at school when I come to collect her.

but I might just have this opinion because I have AuDHD and masking is tiring. Perhaps an NT/extraverted kid would be happier being at school longer

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 21:30

MidnightPatrol · 10/04/2025 21:24

Dads have been doing that for centuries without question?

In any case, you don’t only see them at the weekend - it’s a bit like saying if you send your child to school you only see them at the weekend.

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Exactly.

It's also about quality time which can still happen during the week as well as weekends, annual leave, holidays etc.

MsCactus · 10/04/2025 21:28

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:16

But a child with a sibling would never get 1-1 care, could be 3-1 if they have 2 other siblings or were multiples? Then it’s the same ratio as at nursery

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Yes so 1-1 care is best/ideal. Then after that 1-2 care is second best, 1-3 care third etc. The studies show that having one consistent carer is also really important - so relatives who are consistently in their lives better than nanny, nanny better than childminder (because of ratios), nursery with a rotation of staff and multiple kids in one room that change every day = the hardest for kids to adjust to.

As I said I use full time childcare and I've used nurseries age 1, so I think they're necessary. But that's basically what the research shows - and over age 3 is when kids start seeing a benefit from going to nurseries and group childcare.

AquaPeer · 10/04/2025 21:25

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:21

Doctorate or undergraduate?

not sure I’d place too much stock in the research skills of an undergrad dissertation

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Im pretty certain we’re not benefitting from the expertise of someone with a doctorate in child development

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:24

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 21:21

This. Kids doing long hours is not a good thing, especially very young ones. I don't really understand why you'd have kids if you basically only see them in the weekend.

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To live a comfortable life? Re the ‘long day’ The child would be awake regardless. Does it matter where exactly they are?

OP posts:

MidnightPatrol · 10/04/2025 21:24

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 21:21

This. Kids doing long hours is not a good thing, especially very young ones. I don't really understand why you'd have kids if you basically only see them in the weekend.

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Dads have been doing that for centuries without question?

In any case, you don’t only see them at the weekend - it’s a bit like saying if you send your child to school you only see them at the weekend.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:21

NuffSaidSam · 10/04/2025 20:26

I'm sorry I did my degree a while ago now and can't quote references off hand (and I've not got the time or inclination to dust off the textbooks). You can use google to find peer-reviewed articles though (in addition to all the rubbish I agree is out there). It used to be called Google Scholar, but again I haven't had cause to use it for a while!

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Doctorate or undergraduate?

not sure I’d place too much stock in the research skills of an undergrad dissertation

OP posts:

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 21:21

Stripeyanddotty · 10/04/2025 18:09

So far 2 posters have said their kids do 3 days and another poster’s child goes term time only. Both of which are very different to 8am to 6pm 5 days a week.

This. Kids doing long hours is not a good thing, especially very young ones. I don't really understand why you'd have kids if you basically only see them in the weekend.

TicTac80 · 10/04/2025 21:19

YANBU OP.

Both my DC were at nursery (full time) from 6 months old. I had to work FT (breadwinner). I chose a wonderful nursery: lovely facilities, highly regarded place and wonderful staff (many of whom had worked there for many years). My DC both loved it there, and carried on going to the holiday clubs held there until they started secondary school. When we bump into the staff in town, they remember the DC (now 18 and 11!).

I'd be lying if I said I didn't feel guilty at times - I would have loved to have been able to stay home for longer, or go PT whilst the DC were tiny. On the other hand, it helped knowing the DC were well taken care of, thriving and loved their time at the nursery. It's also where the DC picked up English (we didn't speak it at home, but the nursery were fab with this and I provided vocab lists so they'd understand when DC switched languages!). If I had quit work and become an SAHP, my career (and so my ability to earn, plus pension contributions etc) would have gone down the pan.

FWIW, I still feel bad when I can't make events because of not being able to get the time off from work, but I think that's the same for every parent, isn't it? I do take my hat off to SAHP's though, I don't know how well I'd do it!

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 21:17

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:16

But a child with a sibling would never get 1-1 care, could be 3-1 if they have 2 other siblings or were multiples? Then it’s the same ratio as at nursery

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Yep. I have twins, they've never had 1-1 care.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 21:17

Thepeopleversuswork · 10/04/2025 21:09

@NuffSaidSam

No, this is Mumsnet, an internet chat forum. None of us are required to provide sources for anything we say. It's chat. If you are interested the research is out there to be read, if not just sail past.

It's true that none of us are required to provide sources. But if you're putting a controversial opinion out there on a highly emotive topic which you know will upset or frighten lots of readers about something they have limited or no control over, it would be responsible to present facts as opposed to vaguely frightening hypotheses.

Most of the rhetoric about childcare being bad is based on "stands to reason doesn't it?" or "it can't be natural" type arguments, from people who just don't like the sound of it but haven't really thought their arguments through or researched it, or the reader upthread with the choice Daily Mail article.

To the extent that there is any evidence of damage to children from childcare, its specifically limited to nurseries which are not good. There is no credible evidence that childcare in and of itself is damaging, despite people spending many decades trying to unearth it.

It's fine to have an opinion, this board is all about opinions and it's fine to pose questions about it. But when it's something so obviously inflammatory and frightening and you haven't done the homework to back your argument up you shouldn't be surprised when people rubbish that opinion.

It's also always about ''tiny babies'' in nurseries for 10 hour days every single day for extra dramatic effect.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 21:16

MsCactus · 10/04/2025 20:27

I'm not the poster who mentioned the research, but this medium post does a good job of summarising current childcare research - and also links to the original studies, so you can verify their conclusions if you want to https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4

Every bit of research I've read though says 1-1 care (doesn't have to be a parent - could be a relative or a nanny etc) is best for children under age 3, then nursery is better after age 3, but the ideal is half days.

Btw I work full time and have used full time 8am-6pm childcare after mat leave, so I don't follow this rule - but that's what the research I've read always seems to say is best.

But a child with a sibling would never get 1-1 care, could be 3-1 if they have 2 other siblings or were multiples? Then it’s the same ratio as at nursery

OP posts:

Motheranddaughter · 10/04/2025 21:11

maudlinbrassmonkey · 10/04/2025 19:27

I’ll just leave this here…

Children are only young for a few years and I’ll never regret the time I am spending with them while they’re small.

Said no man ever

Thepeopleversuswork · 10/04/2025 21:09

@NuffSaidSam

No, this is Mumsnet, an internet chat forum. None of us are required to provide sources for anything we say. It's chat. If you are interested the research is out there to be read, if not just sail past.

It's true that none of us are required to provide sources. But if you're putting a controversial opinion out there on a highly emotive topic which you know will upset or frighten lots of readers about something they have limited or no control over, it would be responsible to present facts as opposed to vaguely frightening hypotheses.

Most of the rhetoric about childcare being bad is based on "stands to reason doesn't it?" or "it can't be natural" type arguments, from people who just don't like the sound of it but haven't really thought their arguments through or researched it, or the reader upthread with the choice Daily Mail article.

To the extent that there is any evidence of damage to children from childcare, its specifically limited to nurseries which are not good. There is no credible evidence that childcare in and of itself is damaging, despite people spending many decades trying to unearth it.

It's fine to have an opinion, this board is all about opinions and it's fine to pose questions about it. But when it's something so obviously inflammatory and frightening and you haven't done the homework to back your argument up you shouldn't be surprised when people rubbish that opinion.

Radra · 10/04/2025 21:05

Genuinelyenquiring · 10/04/2025 20:48

Except that at home they're with you so they can act out/do nothing/not follow rules etc. It's like an adult enjoys coming home for the same reason - it's your own space and you're with your own people.

This sounds goady but it's not meant to be. I just don't think an after school club is equivalent to being at home with a parent/caregiver. Of course it's not an option for everyone and lots of people have to work full time and have no flexibility but I still don't think it's the same.

And I really don't think stamina to last 10 hours in a childcare setting is necessary in a 4 year old.

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It's not exactly the same as being at home but it's not work though and it doesn't take "stamina" to endure it as if it were.

My kids are old enough to tell me how they feel about it and what they tell me is that they enjoy it. Sometimes after a school event or whatever they have they option to come straight home from school and 90% of the time they ask to stay at after school club! I had the opportunity to drop another day at work and when I talked to my kids about it, they literally asked whether that would mean they had to "miss out on after school club" 😂

Thegirlsdidtheirownthing · 10/04/2025 21:03

I have two kids, both have done 5 day a week full time nursery from approx 12 months. I feel no guilt about this, one is still in it and loves it. The other goes there for afterschool and holidays. He does a variety of activities Lego, arts & crafts, baking, reading, outside play etc. I actually think it's good for him because he gets to play/fight/negotiate with other kids which he wouldn't get to do at home because kids don't play out on the street anymore like I did when I was young.

HighLadyofTheNightCourt · 10/04/2025 20:56

But I think the impact on babies needs properly researching. I'm not talking about toddlers in for a few days a week. I mean 12 well old babies, doing ten hour days, 5 days per week. Surely this is too much.

It had been researched.

The quality of childcare is key.
For under 2's there is no benefit to them being in high quality childcare but it's not detrimental either.
For 2+ there are benefits to be seen in terms of language development, social skills and developing gross and fine motor skills.

NuffSaidSam · 10/04/2025 20:56

BethDuttonBaby · 10/04/2025 20:47

if you assert something as fact you back it up with links.

otherwise it’s just obvious you are talking out of your arse.

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No, this is Mumsnet, an internet chat forum. None of us are required to provide sources for anything we say. It's chat. If you are interested the research is out there to be read, if not just sail past.

If it were me and I was making a decision about childcare I would research as much as I could, but I'm that sort of person. If you're not that's fine too. It's certainly easier to just assume that anyone who says something you disagree with is 'talking out of their ass'....saves loads of reading. Ignorance is bliss!

Gruttenberg · 10/04/2025 20:52

I'm in my 60's and my kids were full time in nursery when no one actually did that. I hated being a stay at home mum - I take my hat off to anyone who loves it. My kids are now in their 40s and can't remember that when I used to collect them they both tried to run back in because they loved it so much. I was a much better Mum after having a refreshing day at work than I would have been if I'd been home full time.

Genuinelyenquiring · 10/04/2025 20:48

Radra · 10/04/2025 20:27

It's not work, though?

The after school care that my kids receive is basically the choice between:

Playing outside
Arts and crafts
Lego
Organised games/sports
From 5:30, TV is an option

It's not really very different to what they would do at home

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Except that at home they're with you so they can act out/do nothing/not follow rules etc. It's like an adult enjoys coming home for the same reason - it's your own space and you're with your own people.

This sounds goady but it's not meant to be. I just don't think an after school club is equivalent to being at home with a parent/caregiver. Of course it's not an option for everyone and lots of people have to work full time and have no flexibility but I still don't think it's the same.

And I really don't think stamina to last 10 hours in a childcare setting is necessary in a 4 year old.

AquaPeer · 10/04/2025 20:47

melua · 10/04/2025 20:43

Although it's preferable for some mums (who, by their own admission, can't cope with being with their babies full time); or a necessity for those who need to work and have have no choice, its obvious that it's far from ideal to have small babies and toddlers doing long days in nursery before the age of 2.5 (when they start to meaningfully socialise). Even then, toddlers don't need to be there for 9 or 10 hour days - just a few hours a few days per week is more than enough.

The govt obviously won't focus on what's best for babies because they just want mums and dads all working full/ time and paying tax.

Having said this, babies will survive. At least they're physically safe and it's obviously a life-saver for children who might otherwise be at home, but being neglected or abused. Those in constant childcare know no different, so it is what it is for them.

It does seem like we're facing some kind of escalating teenage mental health crisis in recent years though. Who knows why - perhaps a combination of social media / screen time, combined with the trend for children to spend the most part of their very early years in institutional settings? Families increasingly rushed, under pressure and no time for each other?

Years ago, some families used to think nothing of sending children to boarding school aged 7. Now we know about 'boarding school syndrome' and the long-term impacts. Or when wealthy Victorian families would leave their children with the nanny all day - the children would just be 'presented' to the parents for a couple of hours in the evening. Easy for the parents. Not so great for the children. But again, they had no frame of reference, no other experience to compare to.

It's a controversial subject and obviously, a lot of families have no choice. But I think the impact on babies needs properly researching. I'm not talking about toddlers in for a few days a week. I mean 12 well old babies, doing ten hour days, 5 days per week. Surely this is too much.

This has been researched, in fact my sisters children were in a research nursery for a bit. It was in a university and the health and social care and students did research projects on all sorts of impacts and best practise in childcare. My sister works for the university and this isn’t uncommon, although many universities have closed their on site nurseries now so maybe less so