Page 25 | To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:44

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 22:42

From what I remember, they usually do better at school, get better jobs etc (so broadly socio-economically). And once there are more than 4 children then the fifth consistly is worse off (although that doesn't really seem surprising)

Edited

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Adjusted for socio economic status and parental age? As well as ethnicity, religion etc? Basically after all other variables have been adjusted for inc parenting style

OP posts:

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:43

SallySooo · 10/04/2025 22:32

Sorry how are your nursery bills so low

Not sure if that’s for me?

my bills include school wrap and 4 days for a 3 yr old with 30hrs funding.

they are term time only, so it can be less, April for instance was like £280 (before tf)

we do occasionally put them in holiday club normally just for a few weeks over summer as we don’t have quite enough annual leave to cover it

OP posts:

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 22:42

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:39

In terms of?

what is better? How is that defined.

earn more? Better health? More qualifications? Has that been adjusted for socioeconomic status?

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From what I remember, they usually do better at school, get better jobs etc (so broadly socio-economically). And once there are more than 4 children then the fifth consistly is worse off (although that doesn't really seem surprising)

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 22:41

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:34

He dropped a day yes. He's very involved and hands on , I'm very lucky.

However, despite our parenting equality, a mother is most needed by a baby/very small child. Mothers birth children, the bond is that bit different. But on here we'll all pretend that there's absolutely no differences between males and females and mothers and fathers. Nature tells us different. We just think we know better in these current times.

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Why do you parent equally then if a mother is most needed?

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 22:41

NuffSaidSam · 10/04/2025 22:33

No because you'd have the added variable of the sibling relationship. I don't know enough about this to speak to whether only children fair better than child with siblings, but it's not relatable research wise to the impact of one to one v group care for babies.

As for the nappies, that's clearly an example, but yes some (not all) nurseries will do it so that each staff member changes three nappies instead of one staff member doing nine, but that doesn't change the ratio situation....it's still one person with one baby out of the group leaving the remaining eight babies with one or two staff. This happens multiple times a day obviously. Then there will be breakfast, snack, lunch, tea to set up and tidy away. Bottles to prepare. Tidying up to be done. Activities to set up. Paperwork to be done. Babies to settle for naps. New babies to settle in. One who isn't well and needs extra cuddles. It's just common sense that the amount of time all three staff members are available to all nine babies is minimal. In practise the ratio is maybe 1:4 in a big room with three staff and in a smaller room with six babies and two staff it'll often be 1:6 or 1:5.

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This is what always out me off, because I thought if that person is busy then suddenly the other person has their kids, and the other person's kids. Toddlers at nurseries have fun, but the baby rooms are always depressing. And there's always at least one miserable sick kid.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:39

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 22:37

Only children do have better outcomes, and the oldest child usually has better outcomes than their siblings.

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In terms of?

what is better? How is that defined.

earn more? Better health? More qualifications? Has that been adjusted for socioeconomic status?

OP posts:

NorthernGirl1981 · 10/04/2025 22:39

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:28

Well... If you don't feel guilty... I guess good for you?

Me personally? I disapprove. Yes that's an unpopular opinion and I'll get shouted off here. But when we're all dead and buried... What regrets do we want to have ? I don't want to regret putting my children second to a promotion.

I've got a good career , I took a promotion because I genuinely actually like my job and this was specialising In the field. My compromise was, I would not be working full time. If they want me, they'll take me part time. They did. Money isn't enough to part me from my number one job as a mother. Everytime I get a little 'career buzz' I make sure I bring myself back to the 'centre' and ask myself "how will doing this course that requires a substantial chunk of my time effect my family ?"

I think we're obsessed with career these days and it seems people (particularly on here) see it as utterly vital to push your kids into uni/career and that motherhood is something to be delayed until your 40s because it's just not as 'important' as your precious career. We've become shallow.

It's so easy to fuck your kids up. If you fuck your job up, you can rectify that one (however hard it is to do) there's no unfucking up your kids. They need you.

I personally don't know why people have children if they send them to nursery for lengthy hours the minute their off the breast/bottle.

Kids need more than their basic physical needs met. They need a mother and fathers time and presence.

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Quite. My mum worked full time when I was young and so I was in out the family home between 7.30am-6pm every day (she had to work and I don’t feel any resentment towards her at all about it).

Although the situation couldn’t be avoided I felt sad about it because as much as I loved my childminder, she wasn’t my mum. I hate the fact that the huge majority of my memories are about the fun times I had with my childminder instead of having memories of being with my mum.

My husband was also bought up in a similar environment and so we always knew we didn’t want the same for our children.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:38

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:28

Well... If you don't feel guilty... I guess good for you?

Me personally? I disapprove. Yes that's an unpopular opinion and I'll get shouted off here. But when we're all dead and buried... What regrets do we want to have ? I don't want to regret putting my children second to a promotion.

I've got a good career , I took a promotion because I genuinely actually like my job and this was specialising In the field. My compromise was, I would not be working full time. If they want me, they'll take me part time. They did. Money isn't enough to part me from my number one job as a mother. Everytime I get a little 'career buzz' I make sure I bring myself back to the 'centre' and ask myself "how will doing this course that requires a substantial chunk of my time effect my family ?"

I think we're obsessed with career these days and it seems people (particularly on here) see it as utterly vital to push your kids into uni/career and that motherhood is something to be delayed until your 40s because it's just not as 'important' as your precious career. We've become shallow.

It's so easy to fuck your kids up. If you fuck your job up, you can rectify that one (however hard it is to do) there's no unfucking up your kids. They need you.

I personally don't know why people have children if they send them to nursery for lengthy hours the minute their off the breast/bottle.

Kids need more than their basic physical needs met. They need a mother and fathers time and presence.

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I’ll tell you what I’ll regret, and it ain’t going to work, because it enables me to be a more well rounded individual and show my daughter that she does not need to be reliant on a man, nor does she need to compromise on what she wants to have a family- she just needs a partner.

i won’t regret work because ill be able to provide my kids with cash to fund uni, and a home whilst not sacrificing my retirement and i certainly won’t regret the extra income that has meant they’ve never had to want for anything or the memories we’ve made by travelling or the sheer look of joy on their faces as part of our annual Disney trip. Definitely won’t regret that

OP posts:

Tbrh · 10/04/2025 22:37

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:22

If the premise is 1;1 is better than 1:3 then an only child would have better outcomes than a sibling.

1 person has 3 nappies to change. There are specific times for this, blow outs aren’t a regular occurrence in a child over 1.

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Only children do have better outcomes, and the oldest child usually has better outcomes than their siblings.

0ohLarLar · 10/04/2025 22:36

I should add, i work and always have. I also miss my kids and if money etc were no object, I'd far rather spend all day with them and I think they do better for time with me. Its not guilt. I miss them. They make me happy.

aylis · 10/04/2025 22:35

How has 1:1 become 24/7?

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:34

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 22:31

Does this mean that your husband went part time too?

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He dropped a day yes. He's very involved and hands on , I'm very lucky.

However, despite our parenting equality, a mother is most needed by a baby/very small child. Mothers birth children, the bond is that bit different. But on here we'll all pretend that there's absolutely no differences between males and females and mothers and fathers. Nature tells us different. We just think we know better in these current times.

0ohLarLar · 10/04/2025 22:34

Also you can't get away from the fact that babies have an intrinsic biological bond with their birth mother. This is well studied, adopted babies can be secure in happy homes with attached parents and still show the effects of the trauma of being removed from their birth mother. We have evolved to thrive with a close nurturing relationship with our mothers in toddler years. It is what it is.

NuffSaidSam · 10/04/2025 22:33

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:22

If the premise is 1;1 is better than 1:3 then an only child would have better outcomes than a sibling.

1 person has 3 nappies to change. There are specific times for this, blow outs aren’t a regular occurrence in a child over 1.

Show quote history

No because you'd have the added variable of the sibling relationship. I don't know enough about this to speak to whether only children fair better than child with siblings, but it's not relatable research wise to the impact of one to one v group care for babies.

As for the nappies, that's clearly an example, but yes some (not all) nurseries will do it so that each staff member changes three nappies instead of one staff member doing nine, but that doesn't change the ratio situation....it's still one person with one baby out of the group leaving the remaining eight babies with one or two staff. This happens multiple times a day obviously. Then there will be breakfast, snack, lunch, tea to set up and tidy away. Bottles to prepare. Tidying up to be done. Activities to set up. Paperwork to be done. Babies to settle for naps. New babies to settle in. One who isn't well and needs extra cuddles. It's just common sense that the amount of time all three staff members are available to all nine babies is minimal. In practise the ratio is maybe 1:4 in a big room with three staff and in a smaller room with six babies and two staff it'll often be 1:6 or 1:5.

aylis · 10/04/2025 22:33

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:14

This is the basis of how I feel too!

i love that through my working I’m in a position to save for my kids future, save for my own, save for my retirement, have an adult conversation not about kid related things, show my daughter that your life doesn’t pause if you become a mum- you can still be you and follow your dreams, I love that I can afford to go on a few holidays a year and take my kids to Disney every year

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Funnily enough I was talking with my daughter about this today - she's obsessed with The Simpsons and there was a bit of a dig at Marge being a stay at home mum. We started talking about it and she made me laugh when I said maybe if I stayed home the house wouldn't always be such a mess and my darling girl said 'that's not really that important' 🤣 It was a nice thing to hear on a day I was feeling a bit overwhelmed with trying to get an assignment completed before we go away for a few days, with the house an absolute bombsite.

But she sees me working, studying, raising her, doing my absolute best to give her a life I never had, and being my own person, not only a mum, but also loving her hard every day. I think that's valuable for a little girl. That doesn't mean a mum who stays home isn't also valuable - ultimately our values are what we're passing down. These are the ones I choose to show her.

Original poster

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 22:32

MsCactus · 10/04/2025 22:21

There's been studies on this - and after the age of 3 there's social benefits to kids being in a group setting with other kids. So no, 1-1 attention is not better across the board - but is so when they're under 3.

Also if you really want to get into attachment theory - kids have a critical period of forming a 1-1 attachment between the ages of 0-3 that sets up their relationships for life, and relies on being with one single, consistent primary caregiver. Sibling groups would still have that one consistent caregiver to bond with, even if they don't get 1-1 time.

But basically, if you're interested in this look into the research, it all exists and is out there. I'm not trying to be judgy about nurseries for young kids because as I said I had to use them in the past at a young age. But they're far from "ideal" for babies/toddlers, and positive once they get over age 3.

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What I said was 1:1 is better for learning across the board.

how is better being defined? And over what duration?

but even if a child is in nursery they still will have consistent primary care giver(s) who are bonded to the child, especially in the case of a yr long maternity leave.

either way… no guilt.

atttachment theory may posit that consistent 1;1 with a primary caregiver is the utopia for the child and their attachements. The balance then for me is the family dynamic, the type of mother, the aspirations of the family. Not convinced on the scientific basis of attachment theory, there’s a lot of academic theories, but that’s broadly irrelevant as that’s my personal inner skeptic, the family in the round, their lifestyle, income status i imagine would outweigh the attachment theory angle in terms of long term outcomes for the child

OP posts:

SallySooo · 10/04/2025 22:32

Sorry how are your nursery bills so low

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 22:31

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:28

Well... If you don't feel guilty... I guess good for you?

Me personally? I disapprove. Yes that's an unpopular opinion and I'll get shouted off here. But when we're all dead and buried... What regrets do we want to have ? I don't want to regret putting my children second to a promotion.

I've got a good career , I took a promotion because I genuinely actually like my job and this was specialising In the field. My compromise was, I would not be working full time. If they want me, they'll take me part time. They did. Money isn't enough to part me from my number one job as a mother. Everytime I get a little 'career buzz' I make sure I bring myself back to the 'centre' and ask myself "how will doing this course that requires a substantial chunk of my time effect my family ?"

I think we're obsessed with career these days and it seems people (particularly on here) see it as utterly vital to push your kids into uni/career and that motherhood is something to be delayed until your 40s because it's just not as 'important' as your precious career. We've become shallow.

It's so easy to fuck your kids up. If you fuck your job up, you can rectify that one (however hard it is to do) there's no unfucking up your kids. They need you.

I personally don't know why people have children if they send them to nursery for lengthy hours the minute their off the breast/bottle.

Kids need more than their basic physical needs met. They need a mother and fathers time and presence.

Show quote history

Does this mean that your husband went part time too?

Hooliewhat · 10/04/2025 22:30

Tallyrand · 10/04/2025 22:20

I feel guilty when I start wondering if any nurseries are open on the weekend 🤣

Love this…could have had some grown up time with DH.
both of my DC were happy in nursery so I did not feel guilty. As they got older, they started to complain about after school club, felt guilty for that. One of mine was easily tired out and just wanted to relax at home. My DH and managed to switch things up and bin ASC apart from 1 day per week. By that age (9-11) they really wanted play dates or to chill out at home. Nursery days were the easiest part of child rearing /work life balance by far!

Mahanii · 10/04/2025 22:28

You're not going to feel guilty if your child was happy, why would you? Some of us had miserable babies who were genuinely unhappy, when we called to check they were still crying, or silent and alone in a corner.

Ghosttofu99 · 10/04/2025 22:28

nutbrownhare15 · 10/04/2025 18:38

I think it's good not to feel guilty especially as hardly any men would. But it's also good to understand the evidence around day care for very young children and minimise it where possible. I also wish that society was set up to facilitate part time working for both men and women so that it is assumed they both have caring responsibilities.

This. No one should feel guilty for doing what they have to do to survive but we should all be mindful of the evidence that says nursery and preschool is only beneficial from 2 +. Babies are being looked after but don’t benefit in the same way they would from one to one interaction with a parent.

SquashedMallow · 10/04/2025 22:28

Kanfuzed123 · 10/04/2025 17:47

Inspired by the childcare eating a £45k salary and the anti nursery sentiment from a few posters on there as being inferior for a child.

anyone else not feel in the slightest guilty that there kids are in nursery and have been post maternity leave?

yeah when they cried at drop off was rough and I called into the check out they were but that soon settled. They do lovely events for the parents and upload lots of amazing activities they do, they’ve made fantastic friends.

I could’ve reduced my hours but I didn’t, we could’ve maybe managed on one salary (glad we didn’t when rates shot up) but I went back FT when dc 1 was 15 months (used annual leave for part time before then) and dc2 was 13 months.

anyone else just not feel guilty? I like the lifestyle we can get when we’re working, especially since the 15 funded hrs and now 30, it’s so affordable. (Eldest is in school and youngest now has the 30 hrs) bill is less than £400 a month inc club etc. I like having something else to focus on too.

im not alone or am I?

Well... If you don't feel guilty... I guess good for you?

Me personally? I disapprove. Yes that's an unpopular opinion and I'll get shouted off here. But when we're all dead and buried... What regrets do we want to have ? I don't want to regret putting my children second to a promotion.

I've got a good career , I took a promotion because I genuinely actually like my job and this was specialising In the field. My compromise was, I would not be working full time. If they want me, they'll take me part time. They did. Money isn't enough to part me from my number one job as a mother. Everytime I get a little 'career buzz' I make sure I bring myself back to the 'centre' and ask myself "how will doing this course that requires a substantial chunk of my time effect my family ?"

I think we're obsessed with career these days and it seems people (particularly on here) see it as utterly vital to push your kids into uni/career and that motherhood is something to be delayed until your 40s because it's just not as 'important' as your precious career. We've become shallow.

It's so easy to fuck your kids up. If you fuck your job up, you can rectify that one (however hard it is to do) there's no unfucking up your kids. They need you.

I personally don't know why people have children if they send them to nursery for lengthy hours the minute their off the breast/bottle.

Kids need more than their basic physical needs met. They need a mother and fathers time and presence.

SouthLondonMum22 · 10/04/2025 22:26

0ohLarLar · 10/04/2025 22:19

Oh and i am definitely better at raising my child than any of the childcare workers I've come across is. I understand them, I have a deeper emotional attachment and vested interest in what is best for them.i sacrifice more to put their needs first than an unrelated, paid nursery nurse will.

I only have two children and most nurseries where i live will have 8 three year olds competing for a single adult's attention.

I'm better at raising my child too but my child's nursery workers do a great job of caring for them when I'm at work.

melua · 10/04/2025 22:25

It's not about 1:1 care. It's more about, as a baby or child, spending the most part of your life with someone who loves you. That's the key difference.

aylis · 10/04/2025 22:23

LuluDelulu · 10/04/2025 22:11

I’m sure nursery hasn’t fucked up your child, but is nursery at 6 months for long days the MOST ideal scenario? Probably not. You also show a misunderstanding of attachment. Gabor Mate is good on this.

I will have to send my DD to nursery as I am the higher earner in my marriage but looking at the research (and I’m an academic researcher as part of my job, though not in this field) nursery at a very young age is not ideal, unless home life is detrimental.

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She went in half a day at nursery from 6 months so it wasn't a hard transition for her when I went back to work. It was very carefully planned and she had built positive relationships at every age and stage with people who are still in her life. In hindsight it has been better than we could have hoped for. Being home alone with a mother not suited for it was never the ideal scenario. It wasn't necessary.