To NOT feel guilty that my kids are in childcare?

No thanks. I did an MSc in a similar field many years ago.

But how frequently? That young and full time? I've never seen it happen among people I know.

Who are these mums being forced to put tiny babies into full time child care?

maternity legislation is the best it’s ever been in the U.K.

I did actually have dc1 back in the days of 12 week maternity leave, so he was in childcare from that age. Not ideal from my point of view as I was breast feeding early morning, pumping for day time feeds and then bf again evenings and overnight. Very tiring! But it was what it was, and ds has grown into a very happy, well adjusted adult. (As he no doubt would have done if I’d given up work)

I wouldn’t propose a return to those days because as I say, physically very tough. Emotionally perhaps a little easier because at that age there’s none of the separation anxiety which can happen if don’t start leaving a child with other care givers until one year, 2 or even older. (I remember having to be peeled off my mother when I started school at 4.)
But maternity leave is a decent length now; there is also the option of transferable parental leave. Of course, I’m a great advocate of nurseries being the kind of one my kids went to with plenty of outdoor activities, home cooked food etc, they need to be quality environments. But this scare mongering about childcare which isn’t based on evidence is really not helpful and you do have to question the motives of posters who do it.

@Kanfuzed123 call it what you will. I'm saying that, as a society, we need to ask questions about the actual, lived experiences of very small babies in full time childcare. And ask if this can ever be in their best interests. How stressful is it for them? How are their bodies responding? How long is too long?

The govt won't do this though because they know what the recommendations would be and they're not prepared to implement support for families as alternatives.

Not sure if the photo didn't post it if it's just being delayed. I'm trying again:

It happens though @TheKeatingFive and it's legal. I think some nurseries can take babies as young as 8 weeks, full time.

People are most definitely able to say why full-time nursery is 'bad' for under 2s (though like I've said many times, something can be not ideal and yet still the best option given a family's individual circumstances).

This graph for example, taken from the article I linked to earlier.

As taken from the article: "The normal pattern (blue line below) is for cortisol levels to start high in the morning and decline during the day.

In daycare (pink line above) cortisol levels go up and up through the day. That is, children become increasingly stressed throughout whole-day daycare. This finding is very consistent and turns up in studies in (at least) the US, France, Germany, the Netherlands and Norway.

The graph above is for children in daycare morning and afternoon: children who are in for half-days show a less elevated cortisol response or even a normal one."

There seems to be lots of reference to edge cases here to make a point against nurseries.

How many 3 month old babies in the uk are in full time nursery? I'd hazard that number is minuscule if it exists at all.

@Thepeopleversuswork - 'outcomes' will be mediated through so many other intersecting factors in childhood. My point is, there needs to be more focus on the 'getting there' -ie. quality of life from an infants point of view in the critical early years. Childhood is what happens while you're waiting for outcomes.

To be clear, It's not about making anyone feel guilty or trying to paint nurseries are inherently bad. It's asking for a more nuanced perspective on the 'best' way to use nurseries - not solely from the parents' perspective, but from the baby's. Change the lens.

Obviously, an 18 month-old who goes to a nursery for a few days a week, is a totally different proposition to a three month old baby who is in 8-5 every day. This goes without saying.

It's a very triggering subject because everyone needs to think they're doing their best for their children. But that shouldn't mean we should shy away from a discussion that directly concerns the day-to-day lives of the most vulnerable in society.

For instance - Are we ok with mum's being forced to put tiny babies into full-time childcare? Is this acceptable in our society 2025? Where do we draw the line? Do we really believe this can ever be in a child's best interests, even if mum argues it's in hers? How can governments give families more choice and flexibility? These kinds of questions need to be addressed, and it's where the govt should be focusing, in my view. But they won't, because they are more concerned with managing GDP figures.

@Kanfuzed123 it's what the government think too. It's what people say to my face as well.

I don't care, I have a degree, I have lots of CPD qualifications, and we get inspected on our curriculum so people can judge away, I know I provide a good education.

I'm a childcare provider and a lot of my parents say how lucky they feel that the children get so many opportunities with me, that they wouldn't otherwise get.

My DS did 8-5 . I didn't feel guilty either

@melua

You can't predict 'outcomes' though. All anyone can try to do is what's best for their baby in the here and now.

But if you can’t predict outcomes (which I agree with - the data is still inconclusive), what on earth is to be gained by making women feel guilty about doing something they can’t control?

There is a lot more to child development theory than Freud OP, But I think you know this.

You don't want to engage with anything to do with child development theory or infant psychology. You just want to ridicule the entire disciplines. All you seem to want is a piece of paper projecting ok 'outcomes.' Ok then.

It’s important to acknowledge too that parents who use childcare remain the primary care givers and central influence. We don’t hand our children over to nursery at a few months old and pick them up several years later!

The entire parenting journey involves constantly observing, evaluating, making decisions, adapting, to ensure we are doing our best in raising our children. I made the decision to return to work after mat leave, we researched different nurseries and forms of childcare. If ds had struggled to settle, dh and I would have discussed, reconsidered, looked at whether a different environment would be preferable… As parents we know our own children best, whether we work or not.

I don’t know it just feels a bit ‘the lady doth protest too much’