To tell child not to be in any photos without her sister

It's not about money for OP/her eldest, but it may well be for PIL to some degree.

I guess what I mean is that truly equal treatment/accepting someone as your own grandchild is more than the day to day bit.

You see it quite a bit on here where someone has been raised as a member of a family then finds they were left out of a will by someone they called grandad etc and it makes them question their whole relationship and makes them feel like shit.

If that's how it is then better OP knows early and can proceed on that basis.

The OP made it clear it wasn’t about money for her oldest. But it is interesting that the in laws didn’t help her husband (and their son) onto the property market but helped his other siblings who I assume don’t have step children.

Oh how very gracious of you. But your grace is entirely unnecessary since the exchange I had with that pp is in black type on the thread.

(A reminder:

Me: “x”
pp: “I see you say x-opposite. that is progress”.)

I’ll be sure to pull out a similar example on a trans thread the next time we inevitably interact on one of those.

Interesting you mention inheritance @Curlycurio. I wondered if that might come up later too. OP has said this family have resources. The SILs comment about not treating DD1 the same as her DC also sounded like it might have been partially about money too, albeit we don't have the context for the conversation.

But it sounds like another thing to be aware of and consider as a possibility.

This thread shows that there is a lot more at stake when women choose to have second relationships with men and add more children into the mix.

It is a LOT more nuanced than whether or not that new partner is kind to their existing child.

That new partner comes with a whole new set of people and influences that invariably becomes a big part of the first childs life, when a new child is added to the mix.

Othering is often a big part of the reality for that child, which really stings if they don't have a loving birth father and his family to support and love them.

I think most women do not give this any great thought until they see it play out in front of them and see that their first child has become collateral damage to their choices.

It is a massive burden for the children involved and one they often carry for a lifetime.

It’s not equivalent to someone beating her up, no. They are not beating her up.

But they are behaving in ways that hurt her.

You think the problem is the child’s feelings and she should have therapy or support to help her change her feelings. I think the problem is with the IL’s behaviour (cutting child out of photos). I think it’s totally understandable and natural that a child would feel hurt by that and I think it’s harmful to pretend otherwise and suggest therapy to overcome it

I think this is just one of those issues where there is no right or wrong. It is awful to make a child feel “othered” and left out. But you cannot force grandparents (or whoever) to feel something that isn’t there. I don’t think there is much of a solution. It’s just an uncomfortable truth.

I'm willing to entertain the possibility that this is actually how you see things in your head.

I’m not sure therapy to make her ok with treatment that hurts her is the answer.

Therapy is to help her accept and be ok with something she cannot change. And her having no dad or grandparents and her sister and friends having that, is something she cannot change.

You're making it sound like people are saying you should go to therapy to make you ok with someone beating you up, it's not equivalent to that. OP has said the IL are kind and polite to her, she's not being asked to be ok with bad treatment, but with different treatment. IL are treating her as you would if your child brought a friend for tea, you'd feed them and get them drinks and keep them safe but you're not expected to treat them the same as your own child.

Glad your family has all the children feeling loved but from OP’s posts in this family it seems all children aren’t loved and welcome the same way by some family members.

Long term, I would hope that the counselling would help her accept that although she lacks extended family, that is THEIR failing and not hers.

A PP was most eloquent about the impact of being abandoned by her father had on her, and this is why counselling seems to me to be the best approach.

She will always be on the fringe of her sister’s extended family because she isn’t related to them. Wishing it won’t make it so. But if she were happy and secure in herself and her place in her own family, that wouldn’t matter.

Just like it wouldn’t matter if she needs to tell a doctor she doesn’t have information about the father’s health, and it wouldn’t matter that Olivia in Guides is going to Spain with her Nana or Tom’s granddad is teaching him to drive.

DH’s family treat her kindly, buy her presents. But they aren’t her father and grandparents and don’t pretend they are.

I don’t think the OP can be ok with her husband not being called Dad while at the same time wanting his parents to be Grandma and Granddad.

(meant to quote @Curlycurio post)

Yes I can see there are balances to be struck and complications to these things.

I’m not sure cutting a child out of a group family photo is the balance?

The complications that inevitably come with these things is also why I often feel that if this is the attitude of the extended family and if it is hurting the child, then there may be no other solution than to separate/ disengage- if adults aren’t willing to change.

I come from a family where my grandmother embraced two step children- that she continues to mother after one divorce and one widowing. These step children have equal status in her will, along with her biological children. To me that is a healthy model for a blended family. (I also have my own personal experience which I won’t go into as outing).
I totally accept there can be other healthy models of blended families where relationships are much more separated of course - but if the child is being hurt/ made unhappy by exclusionary behaviour then I think that is in itself evidence that , in that particular family, it’s not working. And that can cause lasting pain to an already vulnerable child. I’m not sure therapy to make her ok with treatment that hurts her is the answer.

Can I just say that this is a really bloody hard situation. Even as an adult I find it hard when there are big differences between what I can give my children and what my Dsd's family can offer to her. For example, we don't have involved parents on me and DH's side or close aunties/uncles. (I did have a wonderful grandmother who has sadly passed away). The difference is of course much more obvious when children are half siblings as it feels very close to home. As parents and stepparents it is so often down to us to manage children's feelings and experiences the best we can with what we've got.

You see I'm not sure that's the answer. Basically I do think that they should be nice and kind to SGD because she is a young child with feelings so of course they should.

However, unless DH is actually adopting SDD there will always be some differences in the relationship and denying them isn't always without consequence.

I would argue it would also be quite harmful to say "of course you're our grandchild" and then later in life DD finds they have an ISA for her sister, maybe her sister gets an inheritance, etc.

That's why I think it's better that these DGP are "your sister's grandparents", perhaps they're nice people but no need for them to be a big part of elder DD's life.

I'd also say that as a family, if these are the only extended family who are actively involved, there needs to be a balance for the whole family unit in what they do. For example, I don't think it would be ideal if this ends up in a place where e.g. DH and younger DD spend a most Xmas/Easter with DGP separately. There needs to be a balance whereby even if they are the most involved SGP they/DH's family don't need to be central to everything for younger DD, either.

Actually the below is exactly what happens on sex and gender topics when you try to have a reasonable and productive exchange with those who disagree with you:

*me: there are two issues, x and y. My advice will not solve the first; it will solve the second.

[trying to establish points of consensus - x- as well as the point of divergence - y - in order to establish clarify and enable a productive exchange.]

You: I see you're not trying to argue that your
moral takes will solve anything. that is progress*.

A quintessential example.

This also frequently happens on the step parenting threads.

Yes, that's what she does on the sex and gender topic too.

As well as using words according to her own personal definition rather than the usual one, accusing people of saying things they did not actually say, and trying to drag everyone down rabbit holes on unrelated points because she can't make a coherent point about the subject actually under discussion.

Also appearing to believe that there is no limit to how much someone should be upset or disadvantaged if she perceives it to be to the benefit of the group or person she thinks should be prioritised.

The OPs Dh and his parents need to step up. It's not hard to treat children equally

Correct.

Agree to some extent, the child needs help to overcome this.

But long term what should she do? Always feel like an outsider because of something that's not her fault?

The OPs Dh and his parents need to step up. It's not hard to treat children equally

You: invent loads of bollocks and attribute to a person you're having a discussion with who did not say that or anything like it.

Me: no

You: more fantasist ramblings.

This is what actually sums up our interaction very neatly and aptly. We shall see if you manage to stick that goodbye!

Without wading too far into an argument, I do think this is an almost impossible situation to reconcile. If I think my morher is toxic, I can not take my children to see her. And that’s in my control and then she’s effectively outwith the family. But the problem here is that the younger child has something that the older child doesn’t - but would desperately like to - have: an involved paternal family. And it must sting to see her that her younger sister has that and she doesn’t. The people who are actually “in the wrong” here are the father and his family, not the in-laws who appear to be kind to an unrelated child but don’t want to treat her as a grandchild (which she isn’t). But the father and his family are AWOL and can’t be forced to step up. So, yes, OP can stop her DD1 seeing her DD2’s grandparents - but that doesn’t stop DD1 knowing that her sister has those people in her life and she doesn’t. That’s true even if DD1 never sees them again in her life - she’ll still know that they exist and that her sister has those relationships. And that’s also true whether the OP divorces her DH or not; it’s unconscionable that the younger child should be separated from loving family relationships just because her older half sister doesn’t have the same and I’m quite sure the DH wouldn’t allow it to happen. Very tricky for the OP and her older DD.

me: there are two issues, x and y. My advice will not solve the first; it will solve the second.

You: I see you're not trying to argue that your
moral takes will solve anything

I think this sums up our interaction very neatly and aptly.

Goodbye 👋

(Ps Exactly like kind of tactics I’m met with on threads about trans issues that @MissScarletInTheBallroom was referring to 😆),

😆

I'm not arguing with you over whether OP should divorce DH or not. You clearly want that, to the extent that you've invented a backstory to fill in the absence of such argument from me, but that's tough shit really. You can't have it.

I see you're not trying to argue that your moral takes will solve anything. That's good, it's progress. But as others have pointed out, neither will your advice about splitting, because the ILs and their relationship with DD2 will continue to have influence in DD1s life for the foreseeable, whatever OP does. OP is not stuck with DH as a husband, she very much is stuck with him as a co parent.

I appreciate why this would upset you. From experience please don't make your 5 year old responsible for adults' issues. If you need to address it, speak to the adults involved.