To think that the private school VAT case is a waste of time and money?

RhaenysRocks and Lorna11,

Thank you for your responses. I'll be interested to see how things progress here.

As I don't have much of an influence on Parliamentary Procedures and Government decisions until Elections come round, I too, am unsure as to how the VAT revenue has been spent. Since January, I suspect the millions projected to be raised, has not filtered through HMRC to the Treasury much, yet. My experience says HMRC doesn't move very quickly.

This whole 'thing' is, politically, motivated, of course, and if justification is needed for it's implementation, maybe you can both suggest a fairer way of bolstering the State Education System? If you don't care and are only interested in your own personal circumstances, then, like previous government's, you probably won't find any happy-making solutions to the challenges you face.

State School rolls are decreasing across the UK; funding is being reduced, commensurately; teachers are stretched to the limit and resources are lacking. There are many more, fixed-contract teachers than there used to be, and many of them will not be returning in September. There will be fewer classes to teach in, and less opportunity for schools to be able to afford Permanent , experienced Staff. The prospect of funding being injected into the System, will be a, long overdue, breath of Life.

The Private Sector will survive. It always does.

As to the lies that the Government tells, Lorna11, I have little idea, again. You, obviously, have inside knowledge as to the Prime Minister's, Chancellor's and Education Secretary's deliberations. Or you're just making things up, to suit yourself.

The Court Case was not a waste of time or effort (or money), because the ruling judgement confirmed the Government have not been operating illegally, in any way. Of course, the Supreme Court may get involved at some point, but that is the prerogative of those that have the funds to pursue further civil lawsuits.

Ask yourselves, whether you believe in State Education. If you do, then maybe reading the Left-wing press might be enlightening. If not, then you can expect nothing changing, for the positive, for you, anytime soon.

RhaenysRocks and Lorna11,

Thank you for your responses. I'll be interested to see how things progress here.

As I don't have much of an influence on Parliamentary Procedures and Government decisions until Elections come round, I too, am unsure as to how the VAT revenue has been spent. Since January, I suspect the millions projected to be raised, has not filtered through HMRC to the Treasury much, yet. My experience says HMRC doesn't move very quickly.

This whole 'thing' is, politically, motivated, of course, and if justification is needed for it's implementation, maybe you can both suggest a fairer way of bolstering the State Education System? If you don't care and are only interested in your own personal circumstances, then, like previous government's, you probably won't find any happy-making solutions to the challenges you face.

State School rolls are decreasing across the UK; funding is being reduced, commensurately; teachers are stretched to the limit and resources are lacking. There are many more, fixed-contract teachers than there used to be, and many of them will not be returning in September. There will be fewer classes to teach in, and less opportunity for schools to be able to afford Permanent , experienced Staff. The prospect of funding being injected into the System, will be a, long overdue, breath of Life.

The Private Sector will survive. It always does.

As to the lies that the Government tells, Lorna11, I have little idea, again. You, obviously, have inside knowledge as to the Prime Minister's, Chancellor's and Education Secretary's deliberations. Or you're just making things up, to suit yourself.

The Court Case was not a waste of time or effort (or money), because the ruling judgement confirmed the Government have not been operating illegally, in any way. Of course, the Supreme Court may get involved at some point, but that is the prerogative of those that have the funds to pursue further civil lawsuits.

Ask yourselves, whether you believe in State Education. If you do, then maybe reading the Left-wing press might be enlightening. If not, then you can expect nothing changing, for the positive, for you, anytime soon.

Looks like OP is vindicated, so far.
https://inews.co.uk/news/private-schools-lose-high-court-challenge-governments-vat-fees-policy-3747195

@satisday please can you point to any specific tangible and measurable benefits the state education sector have received as a result of this? KS and RR keep saying this money is being spent in various different ways, including housing. I haven't yet seen a single teacher directly employed as a result of extra funding from this policy. I have seen half a dozen kids leave my own school and a huge increase on y11 leavers as a result.

RhaenysRocks and Lorna11,

Thank you for your responses. I'll be interested to see how things progress here.

As I don't have much of an influence on Parliamentary Procedures and Government decisions until Elections come round, I too, am unsure as to how the VAT revenue has been spent. Since January, I suspect the millions projected to be raised, has not filtered through HMRC to the Treasury much, yet. My experience says HMRC doesn't move very quickly.

This whole 'thing' is, politically, motivated, of course, and if justification is needed for it's implementation, maybe you can both suggest a fairer way of bolstering the State Education System? If you don't care and are only interested in your own personal circumstances, then, like previous government's, you probably won't find any happy-making solutions to the challenges you face.

State School rolls are decreasing across the UK; funding is being reduced, commensurately; teachers are stretched to the limit and resources are lacking. There are many more, fixed-contract teachers than there used to be, and many of them will not be returning in September. There will be fewer classes to teach in, and less opportunity for schools to be able to afford Permanent , experienced Staff. The prospect of funding being injected into the System, will be a, long overdue, breath of Life.

The Private Sector will survive. It always does.

As to the lies that the Government tells, Lorna11, I have little idea, again. You, obviously, have inside knowledge as to the Prime Minister's, Chancellor's and Education Secretary's deliberations. Or you're just making things up, to suit yourself.

The Court Case was not a waste of time or effort (or money), because the ruling judgement confirmed the Government have not been operating illegally, in any way. Of course, the Supreme Court may get involved at some point, but that is the prerogative of those that have the funds to pursue further civil lawsuits.

Ask yourselves, whether you believe in State Education. If you do, then maybe reading the Left-wing press might be enlightening. If not, then you can expect nothing changing, for the positive, for you, anytime soon.

The money’s gone to housing, not improving state schools. They lied. Until the next lie.

Not wrong. The fundamental criterion is that the child needs support over and above what is normally available in mainstream schools. If, as the barrister claims, they are in private schools because they need that support then they meet the criterion. That includes a need for a calm, quiet environment, small school and small classes.

It may be that it would be difficult to get an EHCP, but that is not something the judicial review court is going to take into account.

There are no children who receive this so called exemption in Scotland because no local authority is funding mainstream private education for a SEN child. Not one. That is how narrowly it has been written. That is how stingy the government has been with its ‘we won’t let this affect SEN kids’ nonsense. I pay the fees to school a child that the government has washed their hands of, and then the government has the fucking nerve to ask me to pay VAT on top! Try fulfilling your statutory duty first! Provide my child with a safe school place that is calm and disruption free in order that they can learn. It shouldn’t be too much to ask. But it is, so I have to pay.

Er... university tuition fees were introduced in 1998 by the Labour government. People didn't vote Labour to stop tuition fees being introduced.

I was in my 3rd year at university then and didn't have to pay the fees because tuition was already covered if you'd already started.

Again, not wrong x3.

According to reports of the hearing, counsel for the parents said that it was "not fair" to remove vulnerable children from a school where their needs are met, to an environment where they are not met, without "weighty justification". Based on that criterion, if the children's needs are not being met within a mainstream school environment, they would as a matter of law qualify for an EHCP with provision that puts them into an environment that meets their needs. Either that will be a private school named in the EHCP, or something like a special school or alternative provision. It is not that unusual for LAs to fund private schools precisely because the child needs small, quiet classes and a quiet environment, and independent private schools may well come in cheaper than special schools.

Issues around being bullied are not SEN in themselves, so the possibility of getting an EHCP for this reason alone doesn't arise anyway. If, say, a child with ASD is being bullied it may well be possible to make a case against mainstream school, not least because of the long term effects of anxiety and trauma on the child's ability to learn.

Why do you assume that people contributed blindly, without proper understanding of the issue?

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!

Goodness this is frustrating! The exemption for SEN children is only available if you have an EHCP AND have managed to get the local authority to pay your private school fees for you. It’s that AND which means this exemption is rarely used. My child was told by the state school that they couldn’t safeguard them from vicious bullies who bullied them due to their ASD, and if it was at all an option to get my child into one of the local private schools. They were right. My child is now thriving. BUT do you think the local authority would admit this and fund the fees? Of course not! They just wanted my child to try another state school (with the same issues), and if that didn’t work, yet another state school.

No local authority is going to fund mainstream private school - I don’t think there are any such placements in Scotland whatsoever - when they can just palm you off with a cheaper alternative. The exemption for SEN kids it totally meaningless.

Phillipson is on her way to outlaw reconsideration of EHCPs which means no appeal process

wrong. The bar for EHCPs is so high and the process can be so torturtous, deliberately obstructive and time consuming that some kids age out before it can be achieved. It has been demonstrated time and time again that a typical 1000+ secondary can be massively challenging for children with AuADHD. The rigidity, lack of time and space to cater to make minor adjustments, behaviour issues, crowsed and chaotic and rushed lucnhtimes etc can be overwhelming. These kids don't need a special school or even many adjustments in the classroom that a teacher might make, its the environment. Unless we are going to cut all comps in half and double the staff, you can't recreate the private setting that suits those kinds of kids.

I can see WHY they've implemented the fees, and am not totally against it, but the way they have done it is wrong.

They have literally moved the goalposts and disrupted the education of children.

To make such a change, they should have given at least 3 years notice, so parents have time to look for a suitable alternative, or find sufficient money so their child can finish their education in the same setting.

It's a bit like Labour getting into Power in 1997. I was just too young to vote, but I know so many parents voting because Labour's anti tuition fee policy to abolish the Tory's tuition fees was very popular. Then not only did they renege on their policy, they then trebled the fees! I remember Tony Blair turning up at my university, and we all turned our backs on him in protest!!

Anyway... Private schools need to re-think their business plan to survive. Perhaps lower tuition fees, more bums on seats, focusing on good quality education and no disruptions in lessons.

I've worked in a state school for nearly 12 years and if we didn't have to deal with the disruptive rude self entitled children (mostly caused by poor parenting), then state schools would be just as good as private.

In fact, get rid of private schools altogether, encourage wealthier parents to invest in their local schools, and bring back borstal style boarding schools for those who need some discipline and respect instilled in them.