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I don't understand how this is manslaughter and not murder

221 replies

lifeonmars100 · 08/04/2025 15:15

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/08/two-teenagers-found-guilty- by of-manslaughter-of-80-year-old-man-in-leicestershire-park?CMP=sharebtnurl

I am sure I am not alone in being disturbed and upset by this awful case. I can't stop thinking about this poor man, setting off for a stroll with his dog and then to be the victim of a vicious unprovoked attack of such severity that he died as a result of it. I can't understand how the boy was found guilty of manslaughter and not murder. I appreciate that a murder conviction hinges on "intent" i.e what was in the defendant's mind when they committed the offence and of course I was not in court to hear all the evidence but as a layperson I just don't get it. Maybe things will be clearer when they are sentenced. I feel so sorry for the family, the details are so awful and will surely haunt them forever. The fact that the girl filmed the attack is truly sickening but seems par for the course these days. Mr Kohli must have been terrified and in so much pain, what a terrible end to his life

Two teenagers found guilty of manslaughter of 80-year-old man in Leicestershire park

Bhim Kohli, who was walking his dog, was racially abused, kicked and punched in ‘gratuitous’ attack

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/apr/08/two-teenagers-found-guilty-of-manslaughter-of-80-year-old-man-in-leicestershire-park?CMP=share_btn_url

OP posts:
Arraminta · 08/04/2025 18:53

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PassingStranger · 08/04/2025 18:51

He sent his mum a message saying he couldn't come home because the police knew it was him.
She replied come home. I love you all the world, your my son
Bloody hell.

Bet she didn't give a shit what he was up to roaming around in a park.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 08/04/2025 18:51

Icanthinkformyselfthanks · 08/04/2025 17:11

Unless they tweet and then remove some unpleasant things, then the book is thrown at them.

Bearing in mind this was on 1st September and the attack included racial abuse, I wouldn't be so sure that they weren't influenced by the sort of racist incitement to murder that stupid bitch was tweeting on 29th July.

dottyshihtzu · 08/04/2025 18:50

Maybe it really is time that parents were held accountable if the offender is under 16.

Agree. What the fuck are the parents doing whilst these kids are roaming the streets with balaclavas, beating people to death, stabbing, hacking others to death with machetes, etc?

Maybe the threat of prosecution will make them consider getting off their useless arses and actually doing some parenting.

gattocattivo · 08/04/2025 18:48

I hope they are named. The impact on the wider family will be horrible, but there’s no escaping that- it’s one of the consequences of committing a brutal crime like this. It’s important to send out that message, that you can’t hide behind anonymity after doing this sort of thing.

OonaStubbs · 08/04/2025 18:47

They will be treated with kid gloves just like the killers of James Bulger were. That was over 30 years ago and it seems we have learned nothing. The justice system in this country is a joke, those working within it have nothing but contempt for law-abiders, they see us as mugs worthy of only contempt. The criminals are the real victims in their eyes.

bpirockin · 08/04/2025 18:47

I always thought the difference was "malice aforethought", and for it to be murder it has to be planned, and if that was not the case it was manslaughter.

DeathAndParsnips · 08/04/2025 18:42

This is one of the worst cases that I’ve ever read. I do think that they should have been found guilty of murder but I do hope that they get an incredibly long sentence though nothing will begin to make up for the suffering that poor man and his family endured.

I fear for society when they are released. I don’t believe that anyone is redeemable after such a horrendous act or believe that they deserve a second chance. Nothing excuses their actions.

Dramatic · 08/04/2025 18:41

Pigsears · 08/04/2025 17:10

I don't think the children should have their names released.

Those who are local will know who they are- the victims family, their family, etc etc I don't think it benefits the victims family for the whole country to know their names. And I can't see how it benefits anyone. They are already being sentenced- and that will be their punishment.

Why release adult criminals names then?

Jem57 · 08/04/2025 18:36

I really think if kids do the crime they should be named and shamed.There is no deterrent at all.
i am so sad for this man’s family,it’s horrific what he went through.

Onetwothreefourfivealive · 08/04/2025 18:35

As mentioned about Murder does need to include an intention to kill just and intention to cause GBH.
the manslaughter outcome could be due to the defendant using a defence such as diminished responsibility

PassingStranger · 08/04/2025 18:34

What even makes them think of behaving that way when they are out
Either ignore him or God forbid have a chat with him.
Life is much easier when your nice.

AmIthatSpringy · 08/04/2025 18:28

caramac04 · 08/04/2025 18:07

The poor victim was targeted after previously suffering racial abuse from a gang of teenagers- including the defendants - is my understanding.
Given the viciousness of the assault and the terrible injuries sustained by the victim I think the defendant’s have got off lightly. I doubt the victim would have walked again or had much quality of life had he survived his injuries.
I would hate to be the parents of the defendants or their mates but it doesn’t sound like they instilled any moral fibre in their horrible children.
The attack was awful beyond words.

I'm not a betting woman, but I'd wager my house that the parents will paint themselves and their feral scum as the real victims.

Concretejungle1 · 08/04/2025 18:24

It’s Disgrace. The Girl was even laughing? Id be ashamed if they were my any of family, let alone child. Id wonder where i’d gone wrong.
it’s shameful she is even out on bail. That poor victims family. i would not want my kids anywhere near her.
i hope they both get the max but even then, it won’t be long enough. They’ll be out and able to live a long life while this poor bloke can’t. It scares me, what they’ve done, and if they should be let out.

JustFeedMeCake · 08/04/2025 18:23

YANBU. They should be removed from life.

AmIthatSpringy · 08/04/2025 18:22

JandamiHash · 08/04/2025 15:52

Unless they put out an unpleasant tweet then the book is thrown at them

Behave

needabiggerpatio · 08/04/2025 18:22

Scum of the earth. I honestly don't care how young you are. You pound away at someone like that because you're in a bad mood after a breakup 🙄, you don't deserve freedom to move among the rest of society. You can't control yourself, and you deserve a punishment that matches the severity of the crime. You're lucky you're allowed to live out your days, tbh.

LBFseBrom · 08/04/2025 18:21

I suppose it is because the perpetrators are so young, the one who filmed it, laughingly, was only 12!

We'll have to wait and see what comes out about them.

That poor man, what a terrifying ordeal and how shameful for the families of those kids. I cannot even begin to imagine it.

LBFseBrom · 08/04/2025 18:18

PassingStranger · 08/04/2025 15:17

Well done to the parents who obvs didn't raise their kids to have respect for their elders.
Name and shame them all.including the parents.
Countries fed up with the feral scum that are being churned out.

Which countries in particular? I am not sure any country should metaphorically 'wash it's hands' of youth, instead try to do something about it. However it's down to individual families to set a good example to their children, not blame the country.

Smallmercies · 08/04/2025 18:17

caringcarer · 08/04/2025 18:16

These kids managed violence without any tweets

So? What's your point exactly?

caringcarer · 08/04/2025 18:16

Smallmercies · 08/04/2025 17:16

Tweets inciting violence - you missed that bit out. She wanted asylum hotels burnt down.

These kids managed violence without any tweets

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/04/2025 18:16

OonaStubbs · 08/04/2025 17:59

Faith and confidence in the justice system in this country is at an all time low. These scrotes murdered a man and the sentence should have been life, meaning life, and it should be served in a proper prison, not a holiday camp with free playstation, free food etc.

They haven't been sentenced yet.

Evilspiritgin · 08/04/2025 18:15

if she’s got the gentleman’s photo on her phone and he brought along his balaclava it’s pre-meditated , so that hopefully will add some weight to sentencing

I really hate to think this but do we think she’s been the more dominant force between the two? The 12/13/14 yr old girls who come into our shop causing trouble are undoubtedly nasty

Didshejustsaythatoutloud · 08/04/2025 18:13

GeorgianaM · 08/04/2025 15:34

A boy who slapped an 80-year-old man with a slider shoe as he cowered on the ground before punching and kicking him is facing jail after being convicted of manslaughter.
The teenager was just 14 when he donned a balaclava and viciously attacked retired factory owner Bhim Kohli as he walked his dog Rocky in a park next to his home in September last year.
The baby-faced teen was acquitted of murder by a jury at Leicester Crown Court on Tuesday but found guilty of the lesser charge following a six-week trial.
A girl, who was just 12 at the time, filmed part of the attack and could be heard laughing in the video as the pensioner cowered on his knees was also found guilty of manslaughter after prosecutors said she 'encouraged the violence'.
The pair cannot be named because of their age.
The boy, now 15 showed no emotion while the girl, 13 cried in the dock as the verdicts were handed down after the jury deliberated for more than six hours.
Family members sobbed, with one walking out of the court in tears. The teenagers will be sentenced next month when a judge will consider lifting their anonymity.
Judge Mr Justice Turner granted the girl bail but said it was 'no indication' of what would be decided when she is sentenced. The boy was remanded in custody.
In an emotional statement delivered on the court steps Mr Kohli's daughter Susan paid tribute to her 'amazing' father who was 'brutally and cruelly' taken away.

Describing the day of the attack she told how they were alerted to what had happened and went to the park to help.
'He was screaming out; he was in that much pain - it was horrendous, we have never seen him like that before,' she said. 'We all thought he would go to hospital to be treated and he would then be fine. We never imagined he wouldn't return home.'
She said listening to trial and being shown the videos of their father being attacked would never leave them.
'We feel anger and disgust towards the teenagers who took dad away from us,' she said.
'They humiliated an 80-year-old man, assaulted him, filmed it and laughed at him.
'The boy, who told witnesses he had anger problems and couldn't stop, used violence so severe that he broke three of dad's ribs and neck which caused trauma to his spinal column.
'Videos of the incident were filmed and shockingly found on the girl's phone. Dad did not deserve this, and we wouldn't wish this pain on anyone else.
'One of the videos showed dad on his knees being hit over the head with the boy's slider.

'A loud horrible slapping sound is heard when the boy struck dad. Hearing the girl laugh at this assault on dad is utterly disgusting. This sound plays over and over in our heads.
'Also captured on video is dad's attempt to call for help as he shouted out for his grandson. We didn't hear his call for help and this upsets us deeply. We can't put into words the pain we feel every day, and this has magnified during the trial.'
She said he was an 'amazing' man who loved life and who never took himself seriously, and despite his age and how frail he looked, was healthy and very active. He had three allotment plots where he grew lots of fruit and vegetables which he would share them with the family, friends and neighbours.
She added: 'He was the person who knitted our family together and we miss him every second of every day.
'Our house feels so empty without him and will never be the same. The area we have loved for so many years and called 'home' feels so different now and we will never feel safe.
'Having happened only a minute's walk of where we live is something we cannot get away from and it is a constant reminder. Every time my mum opens the front door she thinks about what happened to her husband.'
Detective Chief Inspector Mark Sinski, from the East Midlands Special Operations Unit Murder Investigation Team, said: 'Bhim Kohli was simply doing what he did every day, walking his dog on the park that was just yards from his own front door.
'But instead of being able to enjoy an evening stroll with Rocky on a warm summer's day, he was confronted by a teenage boy, who was encouraged by a teenage girl, attacked him and left him in agony on the floor.'
Kelly Matthews from the Crown Prosecution Service said the incident shocked the community of Leicester and beyond.
She said: 'We have shown in this trial that these young defendants were responsible for Mr Kohli's death - in an unprovoked attack on an innocent man. They filmed the incident and laughed and bragged about it afterwards.'

Mr Kohli was discovered lying in agony in Leicester's Franklin Park- just yards from his home - by neighbours and his son and daughter.
He had been racially abused and struck around the face with the plastic sandal as he cowered on his knees before being kicked and punched.
He was taken to hospital where he died the next day. A post-mortem examination revealed the cause of Mr Kohli's death to be a neck injury 'causing trauma to the spinal cord'. He also suffered broken ribs.
Prosecutor Harpreet Sandhu KC told jurors the boy had used 'gratuitous' and 'intense' violence before leaving his victim for dead.
He said he had no reason to hit the 'defenceless' elderly man who, because he was on the ground, was in a vulnerable position but his 'instinct' was to use violence.
Mr Sandhu said the girl knew what would happen when she pointed the elderly man out to the boy. 'She knew there would be violence and she had a desire to capture it - and capturing it provided encouragement for the violence to be meted out,' he said.
The trial heard the boy carried out the racist attack after his girlfriend broke up with him and he needed 'anger releasing'.
He went on the run and later tried to claim Mr Kohli had pulled a knife in an attempt to justify the violence. But Mr Kohli's family said he never carried a knife, and no knife was found at the scene.
The girl had a picture of Mr Kohli on her phone, taken a week before the attack, and pointed him out to the boy when they saw him in the park following previous run ins with him.
The photograph of Mr Kohli was at around the same time of day as he was attacked, with prosecutors accusing her of keeping the image on her phone so she could 'target him'.
The court heard the girl regularly 'recorded violence' on her mobile phone, and had dozens of other recordings showing children fighting each other and another where an unidentified victim was called a 'P' and had something thrown over him.
The three video clips of the attack on Mr Kohli were recovered from the girl's mobile phone in a section of Snapchat called 'my eyes only' which requires a code for access, which the prosecution said was an attempt to hide the evidence.
She was accused of 'egging' on the boy, and remained with him during the attack to 'support' him when other teenagers they were with ran away.
In a police interview she was asked if the video showing Mr Kohli being slapped with the shoe had given her enjoyment. She replied: 'Not really but it was a bit funny at the time'.
The girl, who was dressed in black trousers, white shirt and black jumper with her hair tied up and was supported by her mother in court, showed no emotion as she was found guilty.
The boy, who looked at his mother in the public gallery as the verdicts were delivered, wore a pale blue tracksuit.
He had admitted to having 'anger issues' but claimed he slapped Mr Kohli in the face with his slider out of 'instinct' after they tussled over the shoe and 'ran at him' before pushing him as he believed the elderly man was going to hit his friend.
But the court heard the boy sent messages admitting to the attack including one which read: 'I didn't mean to batter him.'
In reply to a message saying an 80-year-old had been 'smacked up' in the park, the boy wrote: 'I did that. ...I didn't mean to batter him. It was one hit and then my anger turned in.'
Before the attack on Mr Kohli, the boy had taken a balaclava out of his Gucci bag and put it on 'in preparation for violence'. Asked why he had a balaclava or 'bally' as he called it, he replied simply, 'fashion'.
The court heard that after the attack he searched for news stories about it and then, ten seconds later, for Adele tickets. When asked by one friend in a message if he was 'sing it' - slang for worrying about something - he replied with two laughing emojis and wrote 'Nah, chilling bro'.
At 8.21pm on September 2, about 25 minutes before Kohli died, he sent a laughing emoji to friends and said: 'Feds know it is me. Got my name and picture.'
The court was told that after his arrest, he wrote a letter to a support worker, in which he said he regretted what he had done. In it he wrote: 'My ex broke up with me and I was struggling with that so I kind of just needed anger etc releasing'.
He went on to say: 'I'm so nervous well scared and worried. I accept I did it and I am doing time. I am just scared about how long I have to do.'
When told the letter would have to be disclosed he replied: 'That's my manslaughter plea gone'.
Due to prior police contact with Mr Kohli, the Leicestershire police made a mandatory referral to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC). The IOPC decided this investigation should be carried out locally by the force. The investigation report has been submitted to the IOPC for them to review.
...........

If I had my way, a rope would be involved for both of them, but the chances are they will serve a paltry amount of time in a youth detention centre and be free to walk the streets again.

I shouldn't have read all your post. I'm in tears.
Utterly heartbreaking. Little fuckers.

EasternStandard · 08/04/2025 18:12

Really awful, so sad. Poor man and family.