To feel that the reasons some children don't do well at school, isn't because they don't try hard enough?

Tbh, most of us would do far better in our Highers now than when we sat them in at 17! Our executive function is better, our ability to delay gratification has improved and a year seems like a snap of the fingers!

Pop any 30/40/50 year old into a year’s study and they will outperform their 17 year old self. That’s why young people with involved parents do better. Those parents bring those skills to bear to help their child succeed.

I suppose so. I know they have multiple truancy officers (or whatever the official term is now) and go out every morning and knock on doors, and have even been known to go into houses (with parental permission) to go to talk to reluctant attendees.

It honestly was like working in a zoo, but the animals were the management, not the students (who could be awful, but they're teenagers).

I would rather homeschool my children than let them be in a school with a bullying culture like that.

@BoredZelda
as @noblegiraffesaid, passing after Year 11 is really difficult and the best chance they have is in school. You said to teach them to work smarter not harder - so passing the first time is the smart option.
Some of my Year 11s this year are really lazy. Some of the class are over target and working their socks off. Classes are ruined by a group of kids who don’t care and won’t work. All are more than capable of passing their exam.

It’s sounds dreadful.
Surely the way the children are treated affects attendance too?

It is an academy. Trying to stay out of special measures due to appalling attendance figures. Hence wanted every child possible in school. Which is fine. But what isn't fine is the way the children are treated. Shouted at like criminals. Herded around like animals. Children developing bladder issues because they weren't allowed to go to the toilet (I know it was because of vandalism in the loos, but that is a minority of children).

And the vomiting in the classroom... I have no words. Horrific for the child concerned, awful for the rest of the class and me as the teacher.

It sounds like the opposite to me. Blaking schools when the families are where things are going on at a societal level. The schools are trying (with not enough resources or teachers) to deal with the consequences of that.

I have been the teacher in the classroom, with a child vomiting into a sick bag, with admin refusing to call parents/send him home.

Why wouldn’t Admin call the parents of a sick child @TheAmusedQuail?

What is tiring is people having opinions without working in education and seeing the sh*tshow it is turning into. Both as staff and as parents with children at those schools.

I have been the teacher in the classroom, with a child vomiting into a sick bag, with admin refusing to call parents/send him home.

There is a reason teachers are hemorrhaging out of UK education, either to work in other occupations OR to go overseas to work in schools where they can have some work life balance.

Read the article about the Birmingham super-head who has today resigned. Our educational system is broken.

Being academic and generally smart means you have knowledge you can use in high paying jobs that not everyone can get.

My DS got a first in his integrated maths master's at Imperial and now makes a butt load of money working at a Hedge Fund building mathematical models.

How does being more academic make me productive at work? I could be constantly being distracted by my huge brain telling me that this work is boring and beneath me and my wide range of talents that I ought to be using. 😆

This "oh I'm not academic" shrugging off of education makes me wonder if it's a one of the reasons the UK's productivity has been lacking.

There is some glaringly obvious stuff missing from this debate about ‘trying harder’ and that is around intrinsic and extrinsic motivation.

Intrinsic motivation is that which comes from within us and we all have it when something is inherently interesting or important to us.

Extrinsic motivation is behaviour driven by the promise of external reward. In this case GCSE results and the promise of a ‘successful future’.

School is the ultimate example of extrinsic outcomes. The curriculum is designed by adults who purport to ‘know best’ and young people are told what is important in their life when the reality is that for most kids maths and English, history, science etc just ISN’T that important to them. And that’s ok! We are not all alike. We are all not robots. We are all diverse and unique with different abilities and skills. Unfortunately the school system only recognises academic achievement and ability and nothing else.

So back to the question of ‘trying harder’ people do naturally try hard when something means something to them. When it is of great value and interest to them. What is the old saying ‘you can lead a horse to water, but you can’t force it to drink’.

To me blaming parents for the failing education system is a bit like blaming individuals for the obesity crisis when clearly there is something going on at a society level, when it affects so many people.

I also know a whole host of other similar parents to us just in my local area who had kids who started secondary school in the 2020 intake - professional families, bright, lovely kids and decent, engaged parents who struggled with secondary school in one way or another and had to try several schools to find one that fit, private school, home school or private tutoring or a mixture, state provided alternative educational settings or online school. Go figure.

Not really. DD1 did really well at school throughout and is now at the top university in the country for her subject. DD2 did well at primary school but struggled to settle in secondary school- through being extremely anxious, not naughty or disruptive. She was diagnosed with ADHD and ASD at 13 and school did try to make some adjustments and she was able to attend more regularly. But then she was sexually assaulted outside school by an older boy who went to her school. The school response was rather feeble, even though the police were involved, and she was also being bullied about the assault while at school. We then had to think more about her overall wellbeing above her education, but eventually enrolled her for GCSEs through an online school. She isn't doing many, but is in a much better place mentally and we hope she will get on ok at college which is vastly different from school and much more supportive.

I don't blame schools per se, but the system in which they operate.

@CheeringOnTheSmartyPants has it 100% correct. Unfortunately, the shit parents on here will continue not to improve themselves for their children, they will continue to blame everyone else. It's so tiring.

At my daughter's recent Year 11 parents' evening, her science teacher sternly asked my daughter why she didn't think her grades were very good. My daughter told her "I try so hard but nothing sticks". The science teacher looked genuinely shocked. I think she was expecting my daughter to say she doesn't give a damn.

Likewise, in Maths, my daughter revises for hours... past papers, videos, flashcards, revision guides but has been told she is now working at level 2 and won't be offered a place at her chosen 6th form. No matter what she does, her grades just don't seem to improve. I'm unsure why her maths teacher isn't trying harder to help her. She works as hard or harder than her peers and for little reward. It's soul destroying for her.

Yep absolutely crazy. Blame the schools for everything, great idea.

Oh please, spoken like a parent who blames everyone else for their children's shit results. I've seen this too many times and it's disgusting.

Totally true. I could have done a lot better in school if I put in more effort, even in life, unless it’s something I really care about, I tend to do the minimum possible.

I dont mean to sound like a dick, but according to tests I have a very high IQ, I’m just a lazy fecker.

You need to really explain to them what retaking Maths and English will mean for them, it's horrible. Try to get a year 12 who is retaking in to talk to them about how shit it is to have to do all this extra (boring/repetitive) work while starting their College journey.

Speaking from experience.

The main reason that some children don't do well at school is because they aren't very bright.

This. I did try very hard in school as did DH. I'm not sure I'd do well in secondary school as most of them are today. I never had a detention. Even back then I felt I did well in spite of school not because of it.

Today I'd be a nervous wreck about getting detention for forgetting equipment or getting something wrong on my homework or not getting all 7+ in my GCSEs, or trying to get my head round the maths which is much more difficult than it was 30 years ago and I only scraped a C in back then. Or having to go to revision sessions instead of having a study break.

I'd have particularly hated school sixth forms which infantilise pupils v my sixth form college where we were treated as young adults.

How can parents can better prepare kids for secondary school? I'd suggest the following.

Subject them to verbal misogynistic abuse, a dose of cyber bullying and sexual assault, make them wear really uncomfortable clothes in stiff, horrible fabric than is also ridiculously expensive, throw them around a bit on the bus, the corridor, and on stairs, regularly leave them behind at the bus stop in the rain, serve shit but expensive food in plastic trays, give random and contradictory instructions and arbitrary punishments, give them 20 different apps with different passwords and usernames but also tell them off for using their phone, set them a shit ton of homework and get them to mark it themselves, regularly shout at them that they are going to fail at life if they don't get 10 x 9 at GCSE, take away all the subjects they would choose to do and excel at and make them study things they hate.

I'm sure I've missed something.

I'm really glad my DDs school offers both academic and vocational qualifications... they can choose subjects like hospitality, construction and Animal Care alongside the traditional subjects like MFL, humanities, Computer Science etc (as well as the compulsory Maths English and Science). The Animal Care department in particular is lovely.

(And the Construction coursework looks amazing!)

LOLOLOLOL
Crazy