Why is ND a common excuse for poor behaviour now?

I think the thing is, in some (a lot of?) cases, teachers aren't being asked to support the child with ND or to provide interventions or alter their teaching practice. The implication is, "you have to let my child continue exactly as they are because they are ND".

I had a child in my class who was routinely trying to explode aerosol deodorant whenever I asked him to do work. The parents' attitude was "well he has ADHD and ODD so what do you expect?".

I also had a child in my class who had severe dyslexia and ADHD. Her parents had high expectations of her and asked me to do the same. She, her parents and I all nearly cried on parents' evening discussing the progress she'd made and how her self confidence had grown in various areas.

Many teachers are also neurodivergent. We can't just keep shifting the responsibility from child to parent to teachers - who can the ND teachers push the responsibility onto? If everyone involved works together and no one expects someone else to magically fix the problem, the results are so much better.

@Newmumhere40

As a teacher, the amount of parents who blame undiagnosed ND for their child's behaviour is staggering and extremely worrying, not least for that child.

Are teachers trained now to be alert and sensitive to the possibility that undiagnosed neurodivergence may well lie at the root of a child's behaviour?

And as we know it's genetic, that it could also lie behind parenting issues and skills gaps? Especially if you meet and interact with the parents?

What has changed in teacher training and continuing professional development in response to growing realisations that neurodivergence is something that affects girls who were previously left out?

How has the fact that realising more people are being diagnosed in later life because they weren't seen or recognised as children affecting teacher training and practice today?

How is the teaching profession evolving in response to these new realisations?

I think you are conflating a number of issues. There are a huge number of ND adults who haven’t been diagnosed as the diagnostic process was practically non-existent 30,40,50 years ago. The waitlist for an adult diagnosis is up to 7 years in some areas.

Some people look for any excuse to justify shitty behaviour rather than face the fact someone has made poor choices or simply isn’t a nice person.

And lastly, you can be neurodivergent, and ALSO be a complete arsehole, and that is as well as being ND, not because of.

I think it likely that autism and ADHD are far more prevalent than is currently realised.

Our world is designed for neurotypical people. The way schooling and work are designed is a struggle for ND people.

As is social life. Many ND people find friendships and relationships difficult to navigate and their approach and behaviours may not match others'.

Many issues may well stem from neurodivergence, whether recognised or not.

Only very recently, experts were confidently asserting that autism & ADHD only affected boys. = 51% of the planet ignored, and a huge cohort of women and girls undiagnosed and unsupported. So many only being recognised later in life.

Partly because the world isn't designed for them, it's likely a large sector of the prison population is ND. If everyone going into youth custody and prison were effectively assessed I'm convinced many more would be identified, which is a first step to understanding and supporting.

It gets criticised here but yes I do think we should be open to the possibility that behaviour issues may - MAY - have neurodivergence at their core and it's wise to consider the possibility. To keep an open mind.

Because ND people can be helped and supported to understand and live in a world that is overwhelming.

And NT people can be helped and supported to understand their parent, partner, friend, colleague, child, pupil etc may struggle to achieve that, and have greater insight into WHY things are happening.

If neurodivergence can be ruled out, then whatever's left is their personality, upbringing, education, life experience and sometimes conscious choice of behaviour in play. Then you can decide if you are prepared to accept that. Or do something about it.

So yes, though it can cause a knee jerk reaction in many people, like OP, I think raising the question, having the conversation and keeping an open mind about the possibility are valuable.

And it's possible to be ND and nasty - or ND and lovely.

You are right. Yes people are ND but there are most certainly those who claim it to avoid work/blame for their actions/physical abuse etc.

As a teacher, the amount of parents who blame undiagnosed ND for their child's behaviour is staggering and extremely worrying, not least for that child.

Completely agree with the pathologisng of normal human emotions. It's normal to feel anxious before an interview or to not like Zoom calls. It doesn't necessarily mean you are autistic or have anxiety. But I find these days people leap to cry autism.
Absolutely agree with Munchausen by internet taking over.

I think it's a combination of things - a lot of things are pathologised unnecessarily, for starters. You can feel anxious without having anxiety disorder, but we seem to have dropped the "disorder" part now and as soon as someone feels anxious, they "have" anxiety and that's part of their identity.

Also, diagnosis takes much longer meaning some people struggle a lot more, and there are people using diagnosis as an excuse. I was diagnosed and medicated for ADHD on the NHS about a year before it suddenly exploded and was everywhere with all the private diagnoses etc, and medication was a game changer - I went from jumping job to job, to holding down a job in the same career for 7 years until different ill health got in the way. What I'm seeing more at the moment is "I got my private ADHD diagnosis, this means I'm unable to work", which I can't wrap my head around. Someone in my situation nowadays would have to wait a lot longer for diagnosis and medication, so it is harder on those people where it has a significant impact on their ability to function.

Social media plays a big role. There are communities for different conditions, which is a blessing and a curse because you can get advice and camaraderie, but humans naturally don't like feeling left out so they think "I'm going to get in on that", and some conditions - neurodivergence, invisible illnesses like EDS, POTS etc, are easier to fake to gain entry to this "club". I do think there are a lot of harmful online communities where the sicker you "are", the more attention and sympathy you get, and people become addicted to that. Like Munchausen by Internet.

Equally, society's patience with neurodivergence has thinned because it's become so diluted with people looking for excuses, so those who genuinely need understanding and acceptance aren't getting it when needed - instead they're told "oh yeah, who isn't neurodivergent these days, that old excuse", and it isn't accepted as a reason for their behaviour.

I don't think it's an issue with a single cause that can be fixed immediately.

It’s an excuse for everything. Poor behaviour, crime, not working and living off the taxpayer.

Taking personal responsibility is just unfashionable. Having a label? On the other hand is trendy.

I am ND hence my username.

ND is not an excuse for poor behaviour but it is an explanation for misunderstood behaviour.

You gave him reasonable adjustments, many ND children and adults don’t get given that luxury.

No, but many of the examples people give are actually just 'normal' behaviour. Like when someone says they have anxiety when they are stressed or that they don't like confrontation, who does? It gets overused like so many things now and used as an excuse which is unfair as it dilutes all scenarios.

Perhaps... but... in the past many people 'coped' before crashing and burning. Often at the point kids came along and it all became too much. A close relative of mine died by suicide after autistic burnout in his 40s. The suicide rate for people with ADHD is 5x higher than usual.

I'm not sure the old solution of ignoring issues and forcing people to mask was as good as it seems on the surface.

There has to be a balance.

It isn’t. hth

I work with a lot of ND kids. I was doing bike skills with one. He started by telling me he had ADHD and couldn't be expected to listen.

I told him he may find it hard to focus, but I would give short and clear instructions. If he couldn't follow them then we'd have to stop because it wouldn't be safe.

He did brilliant listening for all the sessions.

I wasn't going to let him use his ND as an excuse for poor, rude or unsafe behaviour (although i was happy to redefine what poor or rude meant to account for his quirks. ).

Ds is ND. We've always worked on the basis he finds some things easier than others, and many things harder. We will always help him find strategies to help him navigate the hard bits, and he will make mistakes but there are boundaries in place and it's not an excuse to be an arse.

OP, I get what you're saying. Poor behaviour is often assumed to be due to ND. But there are people in the world who are just twats.

You get a bashing because lots on mn are incapable of understanding that it’s ok to question things

and I agree with the op (and am saying that with family members that are ND).

it’s being used in many cases now to try and explain behaviour rather than accept the person concerned is in fact abusive and rude and is NT

added to which being ND doesn’t give a catch all excuse to forgetting manners and being rude or being nasty.

yes some will get overwhelmed with activities but coping mechanisms should be in place

I agree, and I may or not be autistic too.I say this because I'm tired of the us and them thinking.

ND is not a moral value, and I really don't like the 'not made for us' narrative. Because the world is also not made for minorities, women, those with physical disabilities, single parents etc. Those living in conflict zones. There is no virtue in being ND - or NT. World can be a rubbish place for a lot of people.

Both ND and NT can have good or bad mental health, can be trustworthy or not, show good or poor behaviour. And yes, I've certainly seen those trying to explain abusive or aggressive behaviour 'but it's ND so you need to be kind'. My take it - at certain point it does not matter if it's trauma, difficult childhood, autism or 'difficult character'. I think we are doing kids - and adults - a massive disservice telling them others always have to adjust to them at all costs.

I read the GPs info myself as the GP asked me to email the department to advise them of the GP's new guidelines and it said 6 months. You are probably quoting NHS England. Surprisingly not everyone on Mumsnet lives in England.

I'm going to go sit in a corner and think about how meta this is right now, sorry for derailing your thread normal people, I'm sorry I upset you strangerthings.

Still think you were a bit mean tho. But I should respond with kindness (in a nice way, not patronising, dear god I annoy myself 🤦)

NICE guidelines say once a year. That’s gold standard which very few areas if any will go above if not necessary.

Omg and you reported my posts.

I'm really sorry. I did not mean to be a shit.

Xxx

Being the well behaved neuro divergent i am, I'm literally looking at my messages to see where I was a shit but as is often the case, Ill take responsibility now and apologise.

Seriously, it was the comment about thinking I was being a silly nut and you wouldn't explain when I had specifically explained that I didn't understand a lot of stuff. I often ask for explanation.

Im realky sorry if you took that personally. In my defence I was in the midst of explaining why i found that so hurtful and that people think I'm a bitch. I'm not. I just don't understand. And I lashed out. Apologies.

I want no further interaction with you, your behaviour is unreasonably aggressive

I agree with you 100% @PonderingCarefully but I know some people don't like people saying what you've said. I think a lot of will agree with you to be honest. Many people have had enough of it.

You specifically implied I was stupid for not understanding something you had said after I specifically said I often didn't understand things and would ask for clarification. That ableist.